"You Should Be Ashamed... NOT!"

0:30 from the heart of the Texas Hill Country. And we are excited to be with you today. It is Sunday afternoon. We've decided to move our recording times to Sunday, but we are living up in a down world. Hello Annette. Hello. How are you doing today? It's been a great weekend. It has been phenomenal. We've got to talk about our weekend. And we've got a topic that we're going to talk about today that we're hoping and believing that it's going to really help some people today because this is something that everybody I know labors under this to a degree. And what's the topic? Shame. Shame. Shame on you. Did you ever get that when you were a kid? Shame on you.

1:10 Do you ever get it as an adult? Occasionally. Probably. Probably. We all have for sure. But we also want to let you know that Chevy is with us and he is in true form. He has crashed out on Dame Annette's lap. And he got so this is how it's funny. So this is episode 15. And since we started doing this, the first couple of times he'd come in, he'd want to get in our laps. And we were like, no, no. And then we gave in, which we always do to Chevy. And now he, when he sees me start setting up for the podcast, he gets super excited. He knows what's about to happen. He literally, so I have to move some chairs around.

1:51 I give you my office chair. Then I go get your little tiny chair. Because I need a bigger chair for Chevy. Right. That's exactly right. And so anytime I start moving stuff and he sees that I'm like moving the microphones, it's like, he's just like super excited. So he's probably the most excited person in the world about this podcast right now. So he's our number one fan. And because he loves getting up in Annette's lap and then crashing out. He's just completely. Except I felt bad. My watch just got caught on his tail and pulled out a ton of hair. Caught by hair. I feel so bad. But you know what? He didn't even make a move. I'm like, really? If it were me, I would be. Screaming. Helping, yes. He's unfazed. Nothing bothers this dog.

2:32 This is the coolest dog. Funny. He's Mr. Chill. So we've had a huge week. I mean, we came off of Easter in last week's podcast, which was number 14. We talked about Easter. We had a huge Easter weekend. And wow, we did three services. Had a ton of people. It was packed. But we were just buzzing because we were so thankful for what God's up to. Now, since then, we had a night of worship. So tell them what a night of worship is. I love night of worship. Night of worship is where we come together. We invite anybody who wants to come from the area. They don't have to be attenders of our church or members. And we just have a night of worship.

3:13 It's about an hour and a half straight worship. And in the middle of that time, we have baptisms. And we had 14. We had planned on 10. And we ended up with 14. And it was beautiful. It was mainly adults, only a couple of children. And it was shocking. It was beautiful. And for those of you listening who maybe this is newer to you because I have noticed some of the comments, particularly on Fountain. That's where we get a lot of feedback. Have been, hey, thanks for doing the podcast. It's helping me return to my faith, which is uber encouraging for us. Why we do this really? So we want to see people come home.

3:54 We want to bring life. Yeah, exactly. And kind of erase some of the darkness of religion and rules and laws. I don't like the word religion at all. I know. It's a bad connotation. It conjures up bad things. Just like if we were to say government. Ooh, wait. Let's not go there. I got the heebies when I said that. Yeah, I need to clear the room. So same thing with religion. And people have had bad experiences in churches because churches are made up of people. And we're all imperfect people. A running joke of ministers is that being a pastor would be amazing. If it weren't for people. I don't agree with that though.

4:35 No, because we love people. I told my church this morning, we pastor a church called Bridge Church in Fredericksburg, Texas. And it's just a thriving, it's alive. It's just so alive with God's presence and spirit and love. And I told the church I'd give you a group hug if I could right now. You know you're opening up your arms while you're talking. And? Like people can see you and they can't see you. Oh, you mean right now? Yes. Well, I have to act out or I can't talk. Okay. Okay. When you're a communicator, you communicate with your body and your mouth. Well, that's true. So even when I'm talking on a podcast. So you're doing it for me. Your hands are moving also quite dramatically. Not like you.

5:15 You actually did a hug. It's like give three feet, three feet space or somebody's gonna get hurt. But yeah, I put my arms out. I would give everybody a hug. We love what we get to do. But the culture we've tried to create and we feel like God has led us down this path is a culture of grace. It's a culture of mercy, a culture of love and life. And I'm just a, I'm a no stinking thinking kind of guy. In fact, there's a reason why the title of this podcast is living up in a down world, right? Right. It's because that's our attitude that no matter what's happening out in the world today, no matter how dark things get, it seems like the last three, four years have been brutal.

5:55 Really? Brutal on people. And things have gone just really awry. And gosh, wake up one day and go, how do we get here? However, you don't have to live completely under the weight and gravity of a crazy, of a world gone mad, right? So anyway, so that's what our church is about. And also back to night of worship. So we're talking about that. And what we love about that, and what I wanted to encourage those of you listening, maybe you have never stepped over the line and become a person of faith. Maybe Christianity is new to you. Maybe it's something that you were involved in when you were younger. And now at a later time in life, you're thinking I got away, I got hurt, or I got damaged in a church, or I just drifted.

6:41 That's most people. And maybe you've thought about coming back. Maybe you've thought about giving church, the bride of Christ, and Christianity, about Jesus, the groom, a chance. And so we would invite you to come home in a sense. We pray a lot for people who have, for whatever reason, gotten away from things and need to come home. We pray for them. And we all have our seasons and our times, right? So night of worship is this. Oh my goodness. Some friends of ours just booked a trip to Venice. After John Lynch talked about Venice today. We'll talk about that story in a little bit. I know, I'm sorry, I had to show you that text.

7:22 So a friend of ours, actually our across the street neighbor, because she listened to John, she watched him on the online. We had a speaker today. Yeah, we had a special feature. We'll talk about John in a minute. But he was talking about Venice, and she booked a trip to Venice. She just did it because of him talking about how beautiful it is. Wow. Wow, okay. Well, I mean, we're riding the verge of booking a cruise. Well, we are going on a cruise in January. With Mercy Me and John Lynch and Stacey and all these people. We'll talk a little bit. So, night of worship. I keep getting off. I know, sorry. It was my fault. It's okay. I saw you checking your phone. Night of worship is exactly what that is. We celebrate, we do baptisms.

8:03 Baptisms are an external sign. It's people who have said yes to Jesus Christ. I want to be a Christian, and I want to accept Him as my Savior, make Him the Lord of my life. I want to follow Him, learn about Him, and I want to become part of the body of Christ. I want to get involved and connected. And so that's what baptism is, an outward expression of an inward reality. So our heart gets changed, and then we get to say it out loud. What I love is one of the women that came forward to get baptized. It was not planned. All of her family was there. She's an attender. She's a member of our church, but she's elderly. She has a lot of health issues.

8:45 She's wearing oxygen constantly, and she runs up, well, walks fast up to the baptism and said, I want to get baptized. She's pulling off all of her oxygen. Her kids, which are in their forties, I would say. They're adults. I mean, yeah. I mean, they're just like, what is going on? And they run up, they're running up, and they're crying going, what? And she said, it's time. I got baptized as a child, but it didn't mean what it means to me now. You and I lost it. You were baptizing her. Oh, I was crying. I couldn't even talk. You were crying your eyes out. You were just like, I can't do this. And yet Adam Curry gets baptized.

9:28 And it was so, it was such a different response and reaction from you. And it was because of the happiness of... It was a joy, joyful party celebration. Yes, culminated into that moment. We talk about Adam's baptism in Menteca. That's super cool. So Sherri is who we're talking about. Oh my goodness. So about what? Two years ago, we visited in our three, four years ago. I think it was before that. Before COVID. Yeah. COVID has become kind of a marker. So it was before COVID and we got a call that Sherri was dying. I mean, literally in the hospital dying, her heart was failing. I had to drive from Fredericksburg to Austin and go to the cardiac center.

10:10 And oh my gosh, she looked... I thought this is it. Literally, we were like, this is it. She's not going to make it. She won't make it through the night. And the doctors were saying the same kinds of things. And we've watched her bounce back and then she'll get sick again. And she, I mean, literally she's like, she's a walking miracle. I was going to say the Energizer bunny is what comes to my mind. I'm thinking a cat with mom lives kind of thing. It's unbelievable because I remember seeing her in that bed and she just kept trying to relay to us that they weren't taking care of her in that hospital. Remember that? Oh, that's so heartbreaking. It's horrible. But to see her come and get baptized like that, it was just...

10:52 I don't think there was a dry eye. Even if you didn't know her, you would be crying watching that. Because I'm trying to talk to her and say, Sherri, you're such a walking... I'm looking at her right in the eyes and I've got a microphone in my hand and she's in the baptistry. So our baptistry is like a big hot tub kind of where I don't actually get in the water. I'm standing beside it and then we lower them down and back up. And I'm standing there trying to say, I'm so proud of you. This is a bit... And I just lose it. You just can't. You just start bawling. I had to stop. I said, I'm sorry. Every female in that room started crying because you were crying. Because a dude was crying. Yes. Well, I mean, it's just real because I saw her at the death store and literally didn't think she would make it.

11:33 And here she is. And she's pulling her oxygen thing off and all the respiratory therapists in our church are losing their minds. They are. One of them actually came to me and was like, oh my gosh. I was like, you know what? It's good. It's all good. And it is. It was a beautiful thing. So we baptized children. We had adults. We had a family. We had a Spanish speaking mother, Spanish only. And one of our staff is...two of our staff are very fluent in Spanish and he baptized her and that was beautiful to see Brian baptize her and her family. And then we had a 77 year old that wanted to be baptized. All I was thinking about was liability, which because I'm over risk management, getting up in that baptism.

12:17 I thought you were so funny. But then I was worried about how fragile he is and what if he fell and it hurt himself. And he was a trooper. Oh my gosh, he was. So to describe our baptistry, it's about four and a half feet tall and you got to get on these steps to get up into it and step over the edge. It's daunting. Yeah, it really is. For children, it's great. It might be daunting for me at this point, but it is very tricky. And so we made sure we had like three men on each side holding their hands. So we're real careful with all that. And I offered...his name is Cameron. I've never met anyone in their 70s named Cameron. And he's a guy. He's a dude. And precious man, he just lost his wife recently to a four year battle with cancer.

13:01 What? A few weeks ago. Yeah, just a few weeks ago. And he had already planned and she was going to get baptized before she passed. So they were already on this journey. And it was beautiful when he told me when he wanted to be baptized. I said, well, we can go to a river because there's lots of rivers around here. Make it easier on him just to walk down. There's a wellness center here in Fredericksburg. It has a ramp that goes down the pool. They've let us use that for baptisms before. It's just really kind. Yay, wellness center. But he said, no, I want to go in there. And I'm like, are you sure? And he did. And it was beautiful. Well, I think my favorite part of the baptism experience was watching all the pastors come alongside each one and help baptize with you.

13:48 This was spontaneous. It was very spontaneous. We had never seen this. We've been here seven and a half years. I've never seen a pastor come alongside you, much less. I think there were three and another staff member and they were all helping. It was so odd. I was just like, I was in tears. It was absolutely beautiful because we are, our staff is very close. We're very much a family. We're very much friends. We love doing what we do. We all know we're living in a miracle and we know it and we're grateful. And to see all of them walk over to the baptistry spontaneously and before I baptized the first person, they stuck their hands in the water like they were going to help. And I was like, how cool is this? I didn't say a word.

14:29 I just went with it unscripted and unplanned. And when I lowered that person, they all put their hands on him and laid him down. It was the most beautiful thing I've ever experienced in terms of baptism. And then Adam. Oh my goodness. We talked about Adam Curry because Adam has been building up this baptism. He... Well, I remember, let me just say this. When Tina got baptized, I think it was four months ago. Yeah, yeah. Back in October, November. Yes, and he was there and I think something was said, you know, you're next or you're going to... He's like, well, let me think about it, you know? And then I think he just began to really seriously think about it and his faith began to grow until finally he said, I'm ready.

15:15 And so we gave him some dates and we said, because whatever date you want, we'll open it up to the family, basically, anybody who wants to get baptized. And so he gave us enough time out there that we were able to plan it. And boy... Oh, he was stoked. So you got to understand... He even knew what he was going to... down to what he was going to wear in that baptism. So for those of you listening to this podcast, the reason you're actually listening to any podcast is because he invented podcasting about 17, 18 years ago is when it kind of became a brainchild, him and another guy together. And so he's considered the pod father. He is a great podcast with John DeVorek called No Agenda, we highly recommend.

16:00 And then also our favorite, and we love all of them, but our favorite really is with Adam and Tina, his wife. It's called Curry and the Keeper, highly recommend. We talk about it every week. I know, and I'm going to keep talking about it. And they talk about ours as well. That's true. That's true. That's value for value, right? We love these guys. And we're so proud of them because we've got a 50 yard line seat to their journey of faith and they made up their mind to walk together. So it culminates in Adam getting baptized. He's super excited and he's losing his mind over it. He's talking about it on the podcast, but he wants LED lights in the baptistry, wants haze in the air. He wants me to play a solo. I mean, it's hilarious. Which we did not do any of that because it's so Baptist.

16:42 It didn't matter. So I'm looking up the Twitter, the tweet that I posted about Adam. So I asked Adam, because I never presume on a friend and I just say, Hey, you mind if I post a picture of your baptism? He's like, please do get it out there. And so I posted this picture and I wrote this year, my friend, Adam Curry has been growing in his faith journey. And last night it culminated in his profession of faith and subsequent baptism. Tina was baptized recently and they're on the journey together and I wrote those faces, pure joy, because it's a picture of Adam, this massive smile. And there are pastors all around and smile. It was just a party, party in the baptistry with Adam.

17:23 Go figure. I'm looking right now just to see how many, how many views that's had. I'm looking, oh, over 45,000 views. 862 comments, no 862 likes, 72 retweets, 85 comments. And that's just from one tweet of people. This isn't about me. This is about Adam. People are so excited that Adam stepped over the line, gave his heart to Jesus. Now his buckets are full and overflowing. He's leaking out all over the place. He's so full of Jesus. It's amazing to see what God's done. Very cool. Very cool. So that was our night of worship.

18:04 It was just a great celebration. So we've had a great week. And then on, when did John and Stacey get here? So we have some dear friends, John and Stacey Lynch. John wrote a book called The Cure with two other guys. Later he wrote another book called On My Worst Day. I highly recommend both of those books. And John, John grew up in California, then later in Arizona. And he is a master storyteller. Oh my goodness. A master communicator and just one of the best wordsmiths in the pulpit of it. But he is not a preacher. And he pastored how many years? 35 years. 35 years.

18:45 Open door fellowship in Phoenix. But he's not like a preacher. He is more like an actor. He acts out his sermons. It's because he went to school. Well, he was in theater and he was a theater teacher at one point. And then he got saved. Radically saved. He changed everything but it didn't affect that part of his life because he used that talent that he has in acting. For sermon, it's amazing. And he tells the story. So we're not just seeing an actor up there that's acting out and doesn't truly believe what he's saying. It's amazing. I would encourage you to go to our website. It's bridgefbg.com. Bridgefbg.com.

19:27 And watch the message from today. We had a 9 a.m. service, 1045. The first part of it's worship. You can fast forward. If you want to go right to John's message, watch John Lynch. John is an amazing author, speaker, pastor. Now his son Caleb is pastoring that church while John's traveling now in Stacy. So we had John last year. It just blew our world up and it was so good. And we just fell in love. We felt like we had a best friend. I mean, this is our new best friend. And then we brought Stacy with him this time. And immediately it was like family. And it's interesting when you meet. I was telling John today, I said, John, it's funny because when we're in our 20s and we meet somebody, we don't have a lot of history to talk about.

20:08 So you run out of stuff to talk about after about 15 minutes when you're in your 20s. But when you're our age, which I will not say out loud because at the same time, I'm not going to do it on honey. I'm going to respect you. We're supposed to respect our elders. So as Annette and I have gotten a little bit older, a little more what we would call treadwear on our tires, right? That's for sure. One way to say it. What's happened is, is we have story after story after story. And then John and Stacy have story after story. And then we went out to eat with Adam and Tina and John and Stacy and us. And you talk about a table full of stories. Oh my goodness. We couldn't put them in eight volumes of books. I mean, that's and for four hours plus we sat when we got kicked out of our table, we were there for two hours and they kicked us out of the restaurant.

20:55 And they just gave us our food and said, somebody needs your table. Now we were like, what? Well, you you've been here two hours. I know you're just now getting your food because you ordered late, but sorry, eat and go. Not happy about that. But we may be leaving a review for those guys. So anyway, they booted us out of our table. So Annette, we call her mama a when she gets into fire mode, she went up and had a good conversation. You were very kind. These people behind us said they wanted to give us their table because they had an hour and a half left. So we're going to sit there. And he looked over and he said, but that table is not for six people and y'all have six. That's just too crowded.

21:36 Let me move you out to the patio to a nice table, which was perfect. We're at this beautiful restaurant and winery. I'm not going to name the name. I'm going to be no because we're not happy with it right now, even though we're members. I will write a review. I'm sure you will. And it'll be kind, but firm. So truthful, speak the truth in love. So anyway, we went out there and it turned out to be beautiful, perfect day. And we sat out there for another two hours. It was actually better. It turned out I wish we'd stayed been there the whole time. But we had a great time and story after story around the table because the older you get. So what I was telling John is like, now we've got all these stories and shared life experiences.

22:17 Talk about iron sharpening iron and friendship and growth. Powerful stuff. John did our men's meeting on a Saturday morning, crushed it, hit it out of the park, grand slam. With 60 men show up early in the morning on Saturday, beautiful time together. And then of course we had our lunch with them and Adam and Tina. So many things are going on. My mind's buzzing. The Mercy Me opportunity. So many things with the Mercy Me band. So here's another thing that happened. So John spoke this morning, but a few weeks ago I was visiting with Michael, who is the lead guitar player for Mercy Me. He reached out to me through Facebook through a pastor friend named Darren Tyler at Conduit Church in Franklin.

23:02 And so he reaches out through Darren. Darren goes, yeah, I know Jimmy Pruitt. He goes, oh, we love Adam Curry. We're no agenda fans. The whole Mercy Me group loved no agenda. They love no agenda. And so he reached out to me and said, hey, this is a long shot, but I understand you're Adam's pastor. I said, well, I'm his friend, but I'm also his pastor, but I'm his friend first. And he said, hey, if we're ever traveling out in that area, we'd like to VIP you guys to a concert. And guess what I did? I got online and I looked and they're here April 16th. And I'm like, Jimmy, that's in three weeks. Yeah. And I reached out to Michael said, Michael, we would love to do that.

23:45 Let me check in with Adam and Tina, see if they're available on the 16th and sure enough. We're leaving in two hours. Yeah, we're doing our broadcast now and we'll be getting jetting over to San Antonio for the night. But so, and then Michael and I hit it off. We ended up texting one night, what, five hours back and forth. Five and a half. Five and a half hours. You're like, you're still on, not on the phone, like talking, but texting the whole time. I felt kind of neglected that night. I'm sorry. I'll tell you when you meet Michael, you can scold him. You can scold Michael tonight when you meet him. So we get to meet the band tonight. We're looking forward to that. Michael and I are both, he's a guitar player, I'm a guitar player. So we got into gear conversations, which that's when it went rogue, you know?

24:27 But anyway, so Adam and Tina, Tina knew about Mercy Me. Adam had not only heard one song, which was the famous song. And she knew because everybody knows, most people know I Can Only Imagine. Because that song, it wasn't just a Christian song. It crossed over to the pop stations. And so it's a very well-known song. And then also they made a movie. Yeah, I Can Only Imagine. Of Art's Life called I Can Only Imagine. So Adam got to watch that last night, the night before he had to watch it in two different segments. So it's a really cool connection. So while I'm talking to Michael that night that we had the marathon text thing, I mentioned, oh, and by the way, we're hosting John and Stacey Lynch.

25:14 He lost his mind. Michael says, we love that guy. I knew they were connected to Mercy Me. I did not know. I don't remember that. I knew it because of Bart's connection to the 220 network and all that. I didn't know that. I already knew that. But I didn't know how connected until Michael went ape nuts on the phone. And I said, it's going to be the weekend that the concert's here. And he was like, oh my gosh, I wish they could come to the concert with you. They had an engagement over in Austin they had to get to this afternoon. So we didn't get to go. But anyway, you begin to realize that the world's small. As you get older, you know more people. The net goes all the way. It's like this big net around the globe where you know all these people.

25:56 And then you begin to realize, wait, I know that person. Who knows that person? I may not know them, but I know their friend. And all these connections are happening right now that are just crazy, just wild. And so anyway, we'll go do that tonight. It's going to be a blast. And they're going to give us the VIP and give us a bunch of merch. And I don't know what that means. So that means you get to sit special seating. Is it like right up front where it's too loud? It'll probably be up front. And then we'll go in to the back. So we get to park by the buses. And in fact, Michael will meet us out there with tickets. So it's a real neat thing. But they're goo goo over Adam Curry. They're just like bonkers over Adam.

26:38 They'll be fanboying terribly. It's going to be hilarious. But it's really cool. It's been good for me to get to know Michael. I feel like there's a friendship there. And we go to Nashville a lot. And they live in Franklin. So I'll get out that way and get coffee or lunch. Cool stuff. All this is all tied together. Adam, John Curry, now Michael and the band. And what a week. It's all this week. I mean, it's all happened. So tonight's kind of the culmination of that. And then we fly out to Dallas first thing tomorrow. It's like, what? I know. It's going to be another busy week. We'll sleep next year. Right. We'll rest next year. But anyway, it's been a while. We want to talk a little bit because John brought something today.

27:20 He opened up a Pandora's box. When he was preaching, he told a story about him being molested when he was in the fifth grade and that he hid it for years, decades. Decades. Didn't tell his family. Didn't tell his wife. He just said, he determined I'm going to forget this and move on with my life. And yet anything that's hidden like that, he said hiding things is like a Petri dish for sin because it just eats you up from the inside out. And when he told that story, you could have heard a rat, I think, in the other end of the building or a squirrel up on the roof.

28:02 I heard an airplane from the airport. I heard birds chirping. I mean, outside. That's how quiet it got in there. Well, he was so good. He told an amazing kind of fun story to kind of get your heart melted. And then he throws that on you and you're like, what? What just happened? It's like dropping a bomb in a room. And you're like, oh my gosh. Of course, he's a genius in his storytelling. Master storyteller. So when he did that, he really cracked open the door about shame. And what he did is by exposing himself in terms of saying, this happened to me. It took me decades to finally tell.

28:45 And he said, and now I tell it everywhere I go. He said, I could never tell it. Now I can't stop telling it. That was huge. Because what it does, it opens other people up. When someone says, hey, I've got trauma. And I've lived with it hidden. I'm ashamed. What it does, the first person to do it, it's like tipping a domino. We used to play dominoes. Play with our parents and dominoes and we'd set them up and tip them. Or it's like a dam breaking. That water starts to seep through and then the crack gets bigger. And then suddenly you've got a whole river coming down the valley. And I saw that happen. So I got up right after he finished his presentation, his message.

29:30 And I issued an invitation for people to come forward to if you have it and you're ready to, if you're ready to offload shame, this is your moment. And a lot of people came forward. It was remarkable. This is what revivals come. I mean, literally revivals start out of something like that. I was praying. Man, I was praying. Confession and repentance. Please, just open up the dam so that people can get their secrets out. Not that we need to know their secrets. Right. We don't need to know the details. No, we don't need to know details. But where people don't have shame anymore and they can walk in forgiveness of themselves, a person that perpetrated them, and be able to walk upright again.

30:13 Because so many of us, and I know this, when he told the story, it reminded me of what happened to me as a teenager when I was 14. And I thought about you actually. I know. And I actually told John and Stacey. Oh, wow. And he said, how long did it take you before you could share it? I don't even know how long it took. It was after we were married. Yeah. And, but I was raped. A couple of decades. Yes. By two boys, a week apart. Gosh. They were friends and they set me up. And it was very hard. I lived with shame because you always blame yourself. You're at the wrong place at the wrong time.

30:54 It caused an avalanche of challenges in my life from there on till I was in my 30s. It changed your life. It did. It changed my life. For the worse. And it, I had a terrible self-esteem. Then you marry someone who is putting you up on this pedestal until you get married. And I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about my first husband. And then it goes downhill from there because then he starts in on the same rant with me. And it just, I began to get lower and lower and lower until, I don't even know that I actually told him what happened. I may have, I don't even think I did. I remember when you told me and we talked about, we were talking about healing, getting healed from the inside out.

31:40 It's one thing to get your, get your broken arm mended and healed or surgery over something. But how do you heal the human heart and the human spirit and the soul? When you're 14. Yeah. Oh my goodness. The damage that leaves in a person. And I know right now, as we're talking and Annette's opening up about this, I know there are people that are going to listen to this. You're listening right now and you're thinking, that is my story. It may not be the exact same trauma, but it's something that damaged you and it, it scarred your heart, it scarred your mind, it scarred your spirit.

32:20 And those are the hardest things to heal. It really is. And especially for women, when you've been perpetrated, it's very, I mean, we played the blame game and we just, it's hard for us to overcome something like this and trust again. Yes. That's the biggest issue. I agree. John said that really resonated with me. He talked about guilt and shame, that guilt can be something that you suffer from based on a behavior or a mistake you made where you feel guilty for that. Shame is different. Shame strikes to the very core of the person that you are.

33:03 In other words, shame strikes into your character, into your soul. It's much deeper and much more difficult. Guilt, we can, we can throw off guilt. We can work through guilt. Shame is a much deeper cut of the soul. And I remember you, at first you didn't want to really talk about it out loud, like in front of people. We had been given some opportunities to speak. You were invited to speak at a women's event and you showed up and I didn't go with you. You went with... No, I went with a lot of women from the church. And you spoke at this event and you told that story. And I remember you coming home and you told me, I didn't even cry, I'm healed.

33:48 And one of the women, it was an older congregation, and one of the women came to me and she said, she said, honey, God has healed your emotions and that's why you're not crying. Because even as I was speaking, I said, I'm not crying anymore. I'm not crying anymore. And she said, because God's healed you. And you know what was funny is when I got asked to speak at this women's event, when I walked in, I had it all planned out, what I was going to talk about. When I walked in, all these women were quite a bit older. They were all gray haired women. And here I was in my early to mid 40s. Probably, yeah.

34:29 Mid 40s. Yeah, yeah, I'd say 40s. And I thought, these ladies aren't going to be able to relate to me. I'm not going to be able to relate to them. I'm like a kid compared to them. Oh my gosh. I had no idea a lot of those women had gone through similar situations. And I remember standing up after I spoke and I was at the door and they were all walking by me and they were grabbing my hand and just, thank you, I needed that. Now I can tell my story. And then some, now I know I can be whole again. I can be healed. And I was just sitting there thinking, I mean, these women, I was thinking maybe they were in their 60s or 70s and I thought, wow, wow, I'm not the only one.

35:12 I think you think for so long that you're the only one. And that's why shame does, right? So you don't share it with anybody. Shame drives you into hiding. It does. So when you begin to hide, you also begin to pose. Exactly. You begin to put on a persona that's really not yours because you're projecting and you're overcompensating. And what happens in the midst of all that, you begin to lose your own identity and you don't even know who you are anymore or your identity never develops. You never become what we call getting comfortable in your own skin where you're just at a place where, you know, I like who I am. It's hard to like who you are when you've got hidden trauma that's never been dealt with.

35:53 Well, and if you don't get any kind of therapy, yeah, any help because you've hidden it even from people that could... Spiritual counseling....guide you to counseling. You know, I mean, that was dangerous. That was a dangerous place. So you know, it took me years and years and years before I could get to the point to where I could share and then become healed. And later on, I went into, you know, was able to talk to therapists about it, but the shame just totally went away. Now it's just, this is what happened. And so now I've moved on. It's just part of what happened in my life. So part of what happened in terms of your healing is you got it out in the open.

36:34 And this is something John mentioned. We've dealt with this for years with other people too. When you get something out in the light, darkness can no longer be there because darkness isn't even real. All darkness is, is the absence of light at the end of the day. So darkness doesn't even have, there's no matter. There's nothing to it, no substance. It's a void. So when we go into hiding, we go into a vacuum and it just simply means that no light's been lit inside. But when you, if you've ever been in a movie theater in the day and you go out, it's like, whoa, you know, so bright. But what happens is when you expose that trauma, that shame, all that goes, that condemnation, guilt, all that stuff that goes along with that.

37:18 When you get it into the light, light dissipates darkness. And it also dissipates that which has been hiding in darkness. So you got it out in the open. You told me about it. You later began to share it in various meetings and opportunities in ministry or just one on one meetings with women. And it didn't take long before you realized, I'm not crying about this anymore. I don't feel the pain. The triggers gone. I can pull the trigger, but there's no bullet in the gun. I mean, there's just nothing there. Exactly. And that's when you knew you were healed. And I remember watching that process. And that's why I said, Lord, use me to help other people because I didn't want something to happen to me that was that atrocious and it not be used for good.

38:06 What a waste of it. Yes, it is a waste of pain. And I said, open up my mouth, let me be able to tell my story, but not sort of trigger other women, but that'll bring healing to other women. That's beautiful. And I'm going to read you a Bible verse I'd like to share just to help any of you out there. And Annette and I, just because we're pastors, don't ever think that we don't have to stay in the word of God. We don't have to constantly feed ourselves life giving positive scripture because we're subject to the same things anyone else is. Don't ever think we're not. And so in Romans chapter eight, verse one has become a go to for me when I'm having one of those days.

38:48 Therefore, this is what it says, therefore there's now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus because through Christ Jesus, the law of the spirit of life, boy what a beautiful phrase. It's a spirit of life. The law of the spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. So what did it? It was Christ Jesus releasing to us the law of the spirit of life. In other words, Jesus is so life giving that when he comes into your life, there's an exchange your old life for a new life. And now you're operating under the law of the spirit of life in Christ.

39:30 Annette I'm a new creation. John Yes you are. Annette I love that John talked about the old… John I happen to like this new creation. Hubba hubba. Annette Oh my goodness. He talked about the old creation versus new creation. When we accept Christ, we literally have a new heart. We're new people. We're not even the same. If people could get a hold of us having this new creation that we don't have to live like we used to, we don't have to think like we used to, that we literally walk in newness of life with him. Oh my goodness. It brings freedom, freedom. And that is just my mantra.

40:12 I mean I walk in the newness of life. That's what baptism is. When you baptize Adam and others, they laid down their old life and they were raised up in a new life with Christ. It's huge. It's just such freedom. John It's not just life changing. It's life exchanging. Annette We do a song called Beautiful Exchange, which I brought to our worship team. John I love that song. Annette It is. It's a beautiful exchange. John It is. It's glorious. So I have written on my arm in ink. So Annette had an idea of us getting tattoos one time.

40:54 Annette Oh, you're not supposed to tell that. John What, we were 58? Something like that? Annette Oh, yeah. No. John Not last month. Annette Five years ago. John Last month. Annette Yeah, right. John So anyway, a while back. Annette Oh, my goodness. John You've given away our age. Annette Okay, edit this real quick. John Yeah, right. No, I'm leaving it. Indeed, John 836, the whole scripture says, whom the Son has set free is free indeed. It's talking about being set free by the power of Christ. And I actually tattooed it so that I can see it. It isn't really for other people. It's fairly large, but it's on the inside of my forearm. And I want, I do, people do ask about it, which is pretty cool. But I love seeing that every day as a reminder that in Christ, I'm free, even if I don't think I am in the moment or feel like I am, I still am.

41:42 And so I just want to encourage you with that. Now I have to have one other Bible verse and then we're going to land the plane. We're shooting our approach. Flaps are down, wheels are down, gears down. Annette You really are a preacher, aren't you? John I really am. What can I say? 2 Corinthians 5, I'm not normal, but I'm sure. Annette Oh, wait, you didn't preach today. So that's why you're preaching. John Is that why I'm so wound up? Annette Yes, yes. You didn't get to preach. John 2 Corinthians 5, 17 says, therefore, by the way, it's one of the first Bible verses I ever memorized was this one. Someone told me to memorize it and it's the best one. Therefore if anyone is in Christ, they are a new creation. The old has gone, the new has come.

42:23 So it's an exchange. The old is gone, the new has come because you're a new creation in Christ. Isn't that beautiful? Annette It's very beautiful. John Wow. Mind-bending. Listen, don't play the shame game. There comes a point where you need to just offload that. For most of us, it means finding someone that's trusted, someone that's safe. And listen, I know that's not easy to do. We've gone through seasons in our life and it's not the disany of our friends. There's a difference between acquaintances and people who just love to hang around and those that you can really go deep with. And those are jewels. Those are gifts. Those are treasures when they come along in our lives, somebody that can be trusted.

43:05 And so for us in our life, we've had trusted friends and each other that we could share these things with. And by getting them out into the light and out into the open, that shame loses its power over your life. Annette Exactly. John Yeah. I mean, that's been your experience. You talked about it. Annette Yes. John It's been mine too, as a matter of fact. I'm going to hear about that on another podcast. Hey, just a couple of things before we go. I want to thank everyone. I've been reading through your comments on Fountain in particular, which is a great, great value for value platform. I want to invite you to check out Fountain as a podcast platform. But just so appreciate the comments that you've left.

43:48 I do want to read one if that's all right with you, babe. This one really blessed me. And I'm just so thankful when people take the time to write in and say thanks kind of thing. So here it is. And this is from... Let's see, I'm going all the way down to the show, that last show. So I'm sorry, we've got to find that episode. Here we go. This is from just this last week. Listen to this, Annette. It's very short, but I just want to say thanks to RGBTC.

44:29 They gave us a thousand sats, which was nice for a boost. But listen to this. Thank you for helping me rediscover a relationship with Christ. God bless. And RGBTC, we just want to say thank you for saying thank you and appreciate the sats. But more than that, I appreciate you letting us know that our conversations here and our vulnerability here is helping you. And so I prayed for you when I read your comment, by the way, because it was such an encouragement to me. And so I just want to say blessings to you. That's why we do this. It is. I don't want to do this just to have a show. I want it to be meaningful.

45:10 And I want people to feel life coming out of us and receive life that Jesus, only Jesus can give. Absolutely. That's our heart for you living up in a down world. And we want you to get your buckets filled up with this life so that you can go out and make beautiful messes every day all over the place. Much love to you all. There was more that we want to say. We're full, aren't we? Our buckets are full. We have to catch a ride. On the road to San Antonio to go see Mercy Me. We're pretty quick, so I've got to finish producing this. We love you. Live up in a down world. Have a great week. Make beautiful messes everywhere you go.