"The Forgiveness Factor"

0:00 and we'll be right back. Don't get down when you see the worst. Cause the last will be the first. What a day I'm telling you. All things will be new. Living up in a down world. Yeah we're living, yeah we're living. Living up in a down world. Oh! This is Jimmy and Annette and of course Mr. Chevy and we are with you. We are living up in a down world. We want to thank you for joining our podcast today. Number 29. 29. It's going to be a year before we know it.

0:41 I mean it's going to happen. Well we haven't even, well yeah I guess so. It's been over six months. It has been. Wow. Wow. Yowza. I have to brag on our studio. Oh. It's stunning. No it is not. So back story, Adam the Podfather Curry. Adam and Tina came over what? A week and a half ago, two weeks ago. A couple weeks. I got a new piece of equipment which I'm super stoked about for any nerds out there. I got a Roadcaster Duo. And so he wanted to come and I asked him, help me set it up. Let's get some, get all the EQ and the noise gate, the de-esser and all the various effects. So he came up and it was so fun watching the Podfather do his magic.

1:23 I mean he was in his element. He was. Totally. He was. And so anyway, the problem was is we still got some noise in this room. It's a great room. I've got some padding on the walls but not enough. And so last week's episode we had some slap back. Well the reason is I decided to trade out the rug that was in your office and put it in my office and switch and put a smaller rug in here. And you really need a little bit bigger rug. That was my fault. Yeah. Sorry Adam. I was not happy about it but now we have blankets hanging on all the walls. This is like when we were kids and we made tents with blankets. I feel like I'm in a little tent.

2:04 I know. So I've got one, two, three, four, five blankets hanging around the room. This better work Adam. It looks amazing. No, we really need to buy a new rug. We're just going to leave them up. No, no we're not. Okay, we'll get a new rug to fit the room. Yes. And I've got to get some sound panels up on the walls. So we'll get it done. These that you have are really bad. They're falling off the walls. We bought some. We went cheap from Amazon and boy they're all like. No, don't ever do that. It's sticky on the back and they're all falling off. It looks very, just not very classy. It looks ghetto. I'm sorry. Oh, you're using a bad word. I know. That's not a good word. Probably in our culture today. Okay. It just looks bad. It looks bad. It does not look like a nice professional office anymore.

2:46 It doesn't. Or what do you call it? Studio. Studio. Studio. Studio. Studio, studio slash yeah, but no it does not. So anyway, welcome to the show. Thank you for being with us folks and Annette you are stunning today. Right. Thank you so much. I appreciate that. Girl. We went and rocked a workout this morning. We did. Oh my goodness. That was so good though. So some interesting things are happening. So we're on our sabbatical and we're now as of tomorrow, this is Sunday afternoon so we'll post this tomorrow and get up online. So starting tomorrow we'll be starting our fifth week. Is that how that works? We finished, we're four weeks in. Four weeks so we're going, we'll be sliding into fifth.

3:29 Yeah so we're going a little over eight weeks and it has been amazing just from your perspective. Now I know you you had a little bit harder time getting into it per se. Right. So tell a little bit from your perspective. Well I keep asking for two more weeks and I'm not getting that. I thought you said a month. You were asking for a month. No I'll sit at least two weeks because I felt like we lost a couple of weeks. Not that we lost it or it was not something that wasn't good that happened but it just it was it's hard to wind down when you're when you get wound up over family issues. Yeah we had family in town. Right which we talked about last week but I'm winding down. It feels really good. I can tell. I can tell you're. I'm exhausted right now. I'm tired. Why are you so tired? I don't know. I feel I think the workout and we've just been. We've changed our diet. We've changed our diet so it's. I think our energy might. It wanes. It's good one day, bad another day and I don't know. I'm just tired. Probably the heat. The heat. We've been outside every day in the pool and today we haven't. We've stayed inside in the comfortable air conditioning. I felt like after we worked out which was really weird going on Sunday to work out usually on Sunday I'm very busy. I've got a full day. It's our second Sunday to go. I know it's really. It's gonna be hard not to be in that habit. Come Sunday morning like let's get our workout stuff on. Sorry we gotta go workout first.

5:02 No we're doing so during this sabbatical I felt like the Lord showed me three things we need to do and one is simple it's body, mind and spirit and in the order of spirit, body and mind. Right. So kind of looking at this in sections and not there's no real form or structure that's more organic in nature and natural but that's kind of how it's playing out. My first my first two or three weeks were deeply spiritual. I had some power encounters with Holy Spirit but reading a lot, studying a lot. You really are a different person. I see. Thank you. Just a new authority on you that is it's pretty remarkable to see what God's done in a short amount of time. I can't wait to see in eight weeks what you become really literally because it's been it's been mind-boggling to see. It's been powerful and this is our coach Pastor Eddie Freeman from Gateway Church. He's mentoring us through this or our God has kicked off. We haven't heard from him since and that's the point we're not supposed to but he really set us up for success I believe by making sure that we were cutting cutting ties with everybody that would drag us back into work mode and so we're doing it and we're following the playbook. Well you are. I got pulled in. Well we had a little faux pas. Yeah. Our payroll didn't go through. Yeah that's a little scary.

6:35 And I had set it up with our accountant to make sure our payroll goes through every week and this one particular week didn't go through so I had to intervene. You had to slip back into work mode for a few hours. Which stunk. It was stinky. So I deserved two more weeks. It really took me back. It took you out. I know. It kind of reset you a little bit. I know. And I had to call our administrator at the church. Give her our phone. She didn't realize when I was texting her that she was getting my new number which we promised we weren't giving out for two for eight weeks. Yeah. Yeah in a perfect world but you know things happen and so we just have to kind of take it and kind of roll with it you know. Yeah. Yeah. It was tough though.

7:25 I really didn't want that to happen but I even told you. I'm proud of you though. That was the one thing I was worried about because we get paid every week and it's not just us. It's our all of our staff and we have what 14 people on our staff and to have to you know Lori has to call it text everybody email everybody and say sorry you're not getting paid till tomorrow. Luckily I caught it in time for us to get paid one day late. Right. If I wouldn't have caught it that evening it would have been the whole another week. Yeah. I'm sorry that happened to you. That really stinks. It does. And other than that other than that we have we've found a rhythm I think where we're kind of it feels a little bit like Groundhog Day. We get we're doing a lot of the same things but I'm enjoying the predictability of that but yet we have freedom because we don't have an agenda per se. But we have things we're doing.

8:23 Our morning time consists of really getting in the word. We both have great devotionals that we're doing right now. Which ones are you doing right now? Are you doing them out of the you version? Yeah. Well I'm doing the same the the the one with Bill Johnson and then I'm doing one with Cindy Spivey. I really like her. She's not a new version but she has she's on Instagram and she has this little small devotion she does and I really have enjoyed her. Yeah so you're feeding that way but also you're listening to... I listen to teachings constantly. Yeah you're listening to a lot of Gateway because the Gateway is doing this thing called Summer of Giants while Pastor Robert Morris is doing this two week away and he had to have some surgery back surgery. No he was supposed to be gone eight weeks. Yeah eight weeks. I meant two months. My bad. Okay. Thanks. Yeah you're right. So anyway he's he's coming back next week so he's had the two months off and so they brought in all these different speakers like John Maxwell. Every week. I mean powerhouses.

9:18 R.T. Kendall today. So we both watched that today and we're gonna talk a little bit about it because we got so much out of it. I've listened to it twice. And I think you are too. Yes. For those of you that have joined us we want to say thank you. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for listening. Let us know you're out there you know. We can look on rss.com analytics and see how many people and how many downloads we've had. I guess in the six months we've been going we've had over 20,000 downloads or 20,000 people who've engaged and which is wonderful. It's all over the world though the world map is crazy it's lit up everywhere except China and Russia. There's a couple little dots in there. Don't know how that happened but anyway we're all over the world. Oh North Korea is a little sparse too. Oh yeah I would think so. Other than that pretty much everywhere in the world. And we want to say thank you for listening. It means so much to us because we don't do this just for our own.

10:11 We're doing this because we want to help and we want to encourage you and really want to help you live up. I mean the world's dark. I mean sure it is. You spend five minutes on a newsfeed and you see I mean you just open your computer on any social media app and all and you're just faced with stuff that's happening all over the world. So we want you to want to help you live up in a down world and and we do this together. I mean Annette and I do it together but we're doing it with you too. We all help each other. We'd love to hear from you. Go to our website. Check it out. Livingupinadownworld.com and all of our podcasts are on there but also there's devotionals on there that I've written since we started this thing but nearly six months worth. I'm taking a little break here but you can go back through all those and they're just daily short short devotionals to encourage you to build you up and and hopefully connect Scripture with real life. I mean our whole goal is to make faith real for the rest of us for real people. So thank you for listening. We're stoked to be with you today and so I still can't believe we're on number 29. It just it goes by really fast doesn't it? So anyway great sabbatical so far. We're not quite halfway through but almost and yet we I just feel like there's so much more and we really feel like we got a revelation today. We'll go a little more into that but I want to talk about a couple of things. So we talked about our progress so I'm gonna

11:41 get on the the list. Oh yeah. So you have to bring something up because I think this is really interesting. So something that Adam and Tina Curry are doing on their show and it came came up in a funny way but they're calling it KTLD and it's just kind of a thing. They're looking to get some merch done. They're hilarious. I know it's funny. So they have Curry and the Keeper. Check them out. It's an amazing podcast. They do it weekly. I think they release on Thursdays? Wednesday. Wednesday night. They record Wednesday evening and release. So go to Curry and the Keeper. You can find them on any of the podcast platforms. We prefer Fountain. Casamatic is good too. So anyway KTLD. It stands for keep the lid down. This all stems from, do you bump your mic there? Yes. This all stems from from Adam having this really intense thing about toilet seat lids. He's hilarious. I mean so much so that he's pretty confrontive about it. Like if you're in his house he definitely expects you to keep the lid down. And most people don't do that. Well we found that out this last week because when we had guests here every time I went to our it was it was up and now that Adam's now we do that anyway. We've been doing it. We've practiced that for years. That's our whole deal. We're big on that. But Adam is like intense on it because he's I think he's germaphobic. So gross. It is gross. You don't want to flush a toilet with the lid down. No you don't. With it up you mean?

13:14 Because it'll it's spews. Have you ever seen one of those videos? Yes I have. Oh my gosh. I'll never flush it's a lid up again. I know. It goes everywhere. It does. And that's fecal matter. I mean that's gross. Yeah it is. But people don't think about that even if they're just I mean just pee going everywhere. It stinks. It just yeah. Okay so we're not bringing that up because that's kind of a weird topic. Right it sure is. Why are you bringing that up? Well I brought it up because hey it cracked me up when they had it on the show. Now I have to tell on Adam I did this once but I remember when I went over to his house. And he left it up. We did a bro day. And I went into the guest and it was up. Now at that time Tina was out of town with you and the girls going to Pink Impact. I wonder if he had someone there. Maybe he had a guest. Maybe his lawn guy came in. Or his cool guy.

14:09 I think we should because he is so adamant about that. Adam is adamant for sure. That's funny wasn't it? So anyway so they keep bringing it up. If they get merch I mean we have to get some. Oh my gosh I want a t-shirt or a cap but a t-shirt would be cool. That way people can just ask you what does that mean? They're gonna think it's some Christian slogan. Oh right. What does that mean? I have something. This is why I'm bringing it up. Otherwise I wouldn't have gone here about a toilet seat. So they bring it up on the show. It's hysterical to listen and talk about it because they just go around and around the circle on it. They go around the drain so to speak.

14:49 But they brought it up so I was laughing about it. And then I was thinking about it so usually after I listen to the show I'll text Adam and Tina. Great show. Awesome. Just want to build up. Encourage. They do the same for us. Usually. And so I was encouraging him saying love the show. Fantastic. And I wrote KTLD. Keep the lid down. I said living up in a down world and keeping the lid up. Down. Down. Oh my gosh. I'm getting so confused. Confusing myself. But then it struck me after that and I wrote this text to him. I'm just going to share the text with you. I wrote keep the lid down. My new metaphor for shutting the lid on sin.

15:37 One thought that I'm off of here because we were texting and we both had things to do. KTLD is my new metaphor for not letting anything that's not of God in my life. Keeping the lid down on sin, temptation and all the crap. There you go. And all the crap things that can distract and derail me from my walk with Jesus. And I wrote you may have started a movement. So we do need a t-shirt. Yeah. Keep the lid down on the stuff that comes your way. It's all go in the toilet anyway. How do you like that? Oh, I like that a lot. Man, sabbatical is working. I've never even heard anything like this come out of your mouth.

16:23 Well, I mean, hey, it's not like this is a topic of conversation around our house. Anyway, I thought it was cool. And so anyway, so that's kind of a metaphor for me. I'm just going to say KTLD. Keep the lid down. There you go. Shut the door. Keep out the devil. So anyway, also talk about we got a very special gift. Share a little bit. This is really cool. We went to somebody's house. I guess it was Andrea's. It was David and Andrea's house. Yeah, David and Andrea's house. A few months ago and we did a blessing over their home where we prayed over their home. And when we got through, we walked outside and they gave us this metal cross that did you you nailed it into their.

17:11 I remember I missed one hit. Oh, yeah, that's right. The door jam. Yeah, that's right. I felt really bad about that. I couldn't remember who did that. So anyway, they gave it's a metal cross comes in a metal container like a yeah, it's beautiful. And they you nailed it up there, which just signifies that this house is set apart for the Lord. And then we prayed over the house on the inside. We went with we were with many couples and it was beautiful. And so this week, Tina comes over and says, I have a gift and it was the cross. One of the I guess it was Jeannie and Larry told her to give us a cross so all of us could have a cross on our home. It's so cool.

17:58 And I wanted to share their names because it was such a beautiful. And I saw the card that was just oh, that meant so much because we're kind of cut off from people right now with the sabbatical. We're loving it. We're enjoying it. But it is kind of we're missing our community. We are missing our friends and and you know, we can't be friends with everybody. We do have a lot of friends in our church that we love to do stuff with. So we're not doing that. And that's all good. But we do miss them. And so it was really sweet. So I'm just going to read their names, David and Andrea, Todd and Debbie, Larry and Jeannie. There's all the ones who signed the card, Jerry and Carrie and Lou and Don. So if you guys listen to the program, we want to say thank you. We love you. It means a ton. I can't wait to nail it up. It means more than they'll ever know.

18:43 I have a perfect spot for it out on our porch because we know it. I can do it today or whatever. But I want to do it. So but it came with it. So it's it's like hand forged. So it's kind of rough but beautiful. And from New Mexico, old Mexico, old Mexico. And then it's the nail is a homemade nail or a forged nail, too. So it looks like a little railroad spike. So it's all very rustic and legit looking and it'll last forever. So I'm going to I'm going to nail that up on. I'm really excited. We could pray together and we are almost blessed. But we'll do it again. Yes. Just as a way to say thank you. No, it was beautiful. Beautiful. I appreciate it. I didn't talk about my bro date with Adam, did I? Last week, because that was last Monday.

19:28 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is last Monday. I'm losing track. This is the thing about a sabbatical. You start to lose every day. We're we're confused every single day. What day is it? Because it is Groundhog Day for us right now. But we're thankful. So on last Monday, Adam and I went out on a bro date. This is our second one. And we're going to keep doing this as a tradition. It's just a time for two dudes to go out, have dinners and some drinks and just hang out and go deeper, you know, talk about stuff of life, marriage, our, you know, our life, our families, our walk with God. I call it God stuff and God stuff. And so that's that's been such a blessing. We have such a good time doing that and hanging out.

20:09 You and Tina got together, she cooked and you went over and then then we come back to the house and hang out for a while. So it's really beautiful time. And during that time, I was going somewhere with that total story. Oh, oh, oh, I was thinking about anyway, just want to bring that up. Well, that's it. I know. I just know. OK, well, let me share something. I miss something. I'm going to share something because I know that you and Adam are talking about the marriage class that they're involved in. And Tina talks to me about it. I have to share it has been life changing for them. No kidding. Bill Lovelace has put together a booklet on what does it call? Cross centered marriage. That's it. And through at our church, they're doing Zoom calls.

20:56 It's a Zoom call. So because not everybody can get together, can go to the church. It helps if you're out of pocket, you can just get on your phone and zoom in. And it's been a weekly series of teachings and it's been life changing for them. You don't have to have a bad marriage to go to a marriage. Exactly. It's about making your marriage the best it can be. Beautiful. And that's one of the things that has been exciting to hear from Tina. How life changing that's been. And I'm so thankful that Bill brought this. Now, Brenna and Paul Phillips, Dr. Phillips, Dr. Brenna are the ones that are leading the class. All the people you just mentioned that gave us a card. They're all participating and more.

21:48 There's, I want to say 16 or so couples. They're doing it on a Sunday night and a Monday night. I think it ends either tomorrow night or the next week. But man, it has been remarkable listening to the things that have just little tweaks that have been made in Tina and Adam's life. And I haven't had a chance to talk to anybody else because we've been on sabbatical, but I'm grateful that we have a church that cares about marriages. Me too. Me too. Very, very grateful. This is powerful. And one of the things Adam said that that's been a big download for him and just a great revelation is that he now looks at Tina with a different lens, a different view.

22:33 He sees her now as a daughter of God. He's like, how could I hurt a daughter of God? She's precious in his sight and she's his beloved. How could I ever hurt her? And so that's been a real eye opening for him. And then for Tina, she mentioned she's just, you know, because what they do, they do it. But they do. The guys are all on a zoom call. The girls or ladies are all on a zoom call. And then they do a combined thing to wrap up. Yes. And it's been so powerful because he said, man, the guys are starting. They're opening up and they're sharing. But this is going to be their last week, isn't it? Tomorrow night, their last week. I think so. And they're bummed about it. They're all like, oh no.

23:14 Maybe that group will you never know something might spin off of that into another group of couples, you know, or someone else will do the same study. You know, I'm sure. Yeah, I'm sure that's something that we need to continue. I think it would be good for you to preach on. Yeah. You know, marriage. Most people in our church are married. Yeah. Well, I'm just so I'm proud of Adam and Tina going through that. And it really just they went in with a good open mindset and they've learned so much. And it's evident we're watching watching the growth and so proud of them. And I think what brought that up to my mind was I was looking at my show notes, the list. And the next thing on the list was we did an evening out with Adam and Tina on two nights ago. Right. Yes. Friday night. We went with her.

24:03 And Adam and Jen, no, Julie and Ben. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. And they live in Austin. She's a messianic Jew. Hearing her on fire for Jesus. Oh, my goodness. Rock star. She is instrumental in Adam and Tina coming to our church. Right. And connection. It was really good to get to hear their stories, hers and Ben and where Ben came from. And he wasn't the one who led her back to the Lord or led her to the Lord, to Jesus. She knew God. She didn't know Jesus. And he wasn't the one. He started coming back to church because of her coming to church and just seeking.

24:45 I really wanted to hear her story. You know, when we all sat down, of course, it's kind of a it's a loud it's a lab. It's a restaurant over in Dripping Springs. And yet I don't normally I can't hear an environment for whatever reason. I was able to stay engaged in here. Well, and so we kept asking her questions about her Jewish history and her family has not been happy at all. They've been extremely distraught over her. It's a miracle they haven't disowned her. But the only reason why they haven't is they're not secular. They're secular. They're not religious Jewish. They're culturally Jewish. So but her grandmother or was it a great grandmother? Grandmother was a Holocaust survivor.

25:29 Died just a couple of years ago and was really the matriarch of the family and was really that imprint on their family caused them to hold to the purity of their culture. And so anyone who steps outside of that in the family, it's it's a big scandal for them. And so her heart, obviously, that they come to know Christ and as she has and she she prays and weeps over that because she loves them. But it was such a joy. Ben's also a delightful guy. He is. This is a guy who is an introvert that wasn't even going to church. When Julie started going to church, he found at first he didn't and finally started going. Now he leads a men's group. He's involved in a prison ministry. He's in community at the church and involved and takes numerous mission trips.

26:17 Yeah, he is really all in. It's beautiful to see. Yeah. So to get to know them and just listen to their stories, it was so beautiful listening to stories. So that was a night of God's stories and laughter and celebration of what God's doing in our lives. Beautiful, beautiful time with beautiful people. Yes. And so, yeah, so that's kind of been just a couple of highlights in our week this week. I mean, we've been doing a lot of the same going to the gym a lot. We're working on the body side in terms of diet and all that and taking care of ourselves. And that's going really well. One of the things I wanted to talk about, and I know this is something that's really near and dear to your heart.

26:59 And so one thing is going to lead into another. But, you know, if you've ever listened to the program, you've heard us talk about leaky buckets. You know, you get filled up and then go leak out the life that you have. And that's just a principle. But one of the ways that we leak out is through our words. It's through the things we say. It's through the things we type behind a keyboard, the things we text. It can even be the things we think because words are in our mind as well. We think in words and we communicate internally and externally with words. And something that I wanted to encourage you about is that our words are powerful.

27:40 What we say to other people matters. What we say to ourselves matters. What we say to God matters. And so words are a powerful thing. It's that the line of communication. There's a scripture that says out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. So whatever you're full of comes out through the mouth. And as a man thinketh, so is he. So if you're thinking negative things, you're feeling negative things about yourself, about other people, it comes out. Jesus, when he was teaching about the power of faith and words, he cursed a fig tree. And then he said to his disciples, he said, you could say to that mountain, you know, be removed and cast and see.

28:26 It'll be done. He said, you'll have whatever you say. He was talking about the power of words that are anointed and under the authority of God, under the authority of Christ, which the word we use for that is the word anointing. That means an empowerment. And so in light of that, as we encourage you about watching your words, guarding your mouth, the scripture talked about putting a guard on your mouth. What led me into thinking about that, I was thinking about that. And then you listen to R.T. Kendall. So Pastor R.T. Kendall, he was the senior pastor at Westminster Chapel in London, England. We've been to Westminster. Remember, it was beautiful. And for 25 years.

29:10 Here he is an American and he's the pastor of a classic church, you know, historical church in London, England for 25 years. Spirit filled man of God, full of the word, full of the Holy Spirit. 88 years of age now. 88 years old. You would not know it the way he preached today. It was amazing. It was phenomenal. So we listened, Annette, you listened at the gym. At the gym. And you were crying at the gym. Well, I'm doing the last, my last set of abs. I was crying at the gym, but for different reasons. Well, I wasn't crying because the abs, the weights, it was hard.

29:51 But literally, I just lost it because as we were listening, as I was listening to that message and at the end, when he culminated the whole thing into, because it was about forgiveness, into what we need to do, I just lost it. And I told you, I'm done. I'm bawling. I'm done. I'm going to the bathroom. And I sat in the bathroom and just cried because it was so moving and it was just so impactful. It's a word for anyone at any time, at any age, honestly. It really is. So, so he did seven points and he called these proofs.

30:33 These are the proof that you have totally forgiven. The idea was being, it was total forgiveness. So a lot of times we'll partially forgive somebody who we're still holding something. You know, when you've been hurt, you've been offended. Something I said a while back in a sermon and I was quoting Bill Johnson, Pastor Bill Johnson, who said, I've given up the right to be offended. That's something I've really pulled into my heart to say, me too, me too. And in the case that it comes, I might get offended, but I'm giving up the right to be, which means now I have to walk in forgiveness and grace and mercy. And so it doesn't mean you'll never be offended. You just have given up the right to be.

31:17 So now you've got to deal. And so there's not a human being on the planet that hasn't been offended, hurt, wounded, abused, traumatized. I mean, that list could get very long. And so that's really been impactful for Adam as well and for others who've said, man, I'm doing the same thing. I want to give up the right to be offended. So, so our T comes along and gives. OK, so what do you do about it? What do you do about when you've been hurt? You've been offended. He told a story of being extremely damaged in one and one of his children being very hurt in ministry there in in London and during that 25 year period.

31:57 But he won't give any details. He won't out the person that did it. He's he's learned some things and what he and he learned through Joseph's life. Yes, the story of a person, a friend in Romania who happened to be in the area. And he decided I'm going to share what happened because I know he won't share it with anybody, but I've got to tell someone. And what did that person tell him? So that that pastor said to him, he said, you need to totally forgive them. And he's not just forgive. He's like, totally. No, I'm mad. I'm mad. They shouldn't have done it. He wanted his friend to kind of validate him. You should be mad.

32:40 That was wrong, you know, because we all want that right. Yes. When we get hurt, when we get we gather a group. Yes, we always go tell people we can't find a human. We get on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, throw these click bait posts out there. I'm so upset and then dot dot dot and then 50 people. Why? I'm so old. And then you share. Yeah, everybody wants a pat on the back and validation. And so so he didn't get that from his friend. He said, no, you have to totally forgive them. And that started a process in R.T. of walking through what he he didn't say, forgive.

33:20 He says total forgiveness. So that was powerful. And I know so we and I have this thing. We have this thing at the gym because we both have earbuds in. So we're like totally zoned out. Right. And we're doing different workout because you're over here for a while and we see each other. We may connect, you know, say hi, hi, bye. But we always kind of give these either text each other or these knowing nods. Well, the look on your face was, oh, my gosh, it was. Oh, my gosh. Well, then you see me crying. I really think I was crying because I was doing as funky. No, I know. I knew I was. It dawned on me and I realized as I was watching, oh, whatever she's listening to, I knew you were listening to R.T. Kendall.

34:05 I knew that was rock in your world. It was. Oh, my goodness. So afterwards, I said, OK, so we're driving home. You're like, I got to tell you about this. So as you did. And we read the book, actually, has a book called Total Forgiveness. Yes. And I read it many years ago. But, you know, you have to be constantly reminded because we live in a fallen world. We're always going to have opportunity for offense, especially as leaders in a church. Our leaders in anything, in anything. But really, it's hard. I think it's a lot harder for pastors because we expect godly people to act godly. And we don't always act godly. I say we because we're in that in that genre.

34:46 And so it's not it's not just the other people. We're all called to act godly. But we we fall short because we're what we get in our flesh. Right. Right. So, yeah, I needed this message. I needed a reminder. Yeah. So I saw how it impacted you. We get in the car. You start talking about. You got to tell me. And before you even tell me, I want to listen to it because I love R.T. Kendall. I actually met him up in Nashville at a meeting at at Don Finto's home. This gathering of calls of the Kaleidoscope. Oh, yeah, he was there. Yeah, he's so sweet. He wasn't there to lead anything. He was just there to participate like all of us and super nice man.

35:27 But so he he he says this, he said, there are proofs. These are the proofs that you have totally forgiven. So I'm going to read them to you, but I want you to bounce on them a little bit. Just riff on it a little bit. And he asked this question. Actually, the Holy Spirit asked him. So while while he's sitting at the podium on the little throne there at Westminster Chapel in London, and he's leading the service in walks, the lady who caused so much damage. He said irreparable damage to one of his kids. This is a second incident. This is the first one. And he had a visceral reaction, which is what we usually have. I know you see somebody's car or you walk into a place and see them.

36:10 And we just automatically. You round a header at the grocery store and there they are. And you just you just recoil, freeze up almost. So like I said, everybody, everybody deals with this. And so same thing happened to him, but he's in the process of leading a service. So he couldn't just walk out of the room or go the other way or duck behind, you know, aisle number four. He said he was thinking, why is she here? Why is she here? Yeah. So he sits down. So he had one little break where we're doing an offering. Yeah. Elders leading the offerings. He had a moment sitting there and the Holy Spirit spoke to him. The short version is this. He said this. He said, do you want a greater anointing or do you want revival? Do you want revival? And he said, yes, of course I do.

36:52 And he asked him again. He said, yes, of course. And he said, do you want judgment? Do you want me to judge her or do you want revival? And he had to pause because everything in his flesh wanted judgment. Wanted her judged. And he looked up and said, I want revival. He said, if you want a greater anointing. And then he spoke to him about total forgiveness. And he said, OK, so pray for her. He's like, OK, Lord, I lift her up. He just said, no, pray for her. All right, Lord. He said, pray for what was the word? Bless her. Bless her.

37:34 To be blessed. Pray for me to bless her. Yeah. He said, oh, no, if I do that, I know you're going to do that. And I don't want that. We want them dead. You know, we want people that hurt us. We want them to feel what we feel. Yes. We want them to hurt too. And he said, OK, Lord, I pray that you bless her. And he said, she's one of the most prosperous women in London today. And I thought, wow. Another thing he said that's really interesting and too, I think important to say is he said he doesn't hear from the Holy Spirit like that all the time. This was a one time deal where it was so clear that he was literally in a conversation, in an inner conversation with the Holy Spirit, knew it was the Holy Spirit.

38:18 So that that was profound. And he said it changed his life. And so we gave these seven proofs. These are the first number one. OK, when you have been hurt, damaged, number one, don't tell anyone what they've done. That is the proof that you have totally forgiven and that you've given it to God. You've totally you've totally. Because when we give it, we say we give it to God, but then we go share with everybody else so we can get validated. What? It's the opposite. It just it God's like, well, you're not really giving it to me. You just you just took it back. That was interesting because I know how many times we've been hurt and we can't wait to go tell someone.

39:00 We just want somebody to tell us we're OK. We want to be validated. Because when you've been hurt, you've been put down, you've been criticized or whatever happens. You you want somebody it's almost like you need somebody to tell you you're OK. And that is a human response. And unfortunately, though, the way we get that is by slaughtering the person that hurt us verbally. That's what I'm saying. The power of our words against what the Bible says. But we don't remember that at the time because we're so hurt or so hurt. We want somebody to tell us we're OK instead of going to the Lord and receiving his mercy and his grace. And we're OK with God and him saying, just pray for them.

39:41 Jesus says pray for your enemies. Can I read that scripture? I think that'll help us even as we go through these proofs. Luke 6, verses 27 to 31. Jesus said this, But I say to you who hear, love your enemies. Do good to those who hate you. I'm feeling pain just reading this. Love your enemies. Do good to those who hate you. Hate you. Not just dislike you. Hate. Detest. Bless those who curse you. Pray for those who abuse you. To one who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also. And from one who takes away your cloak or your garment or your do not withhold your tunic either.

40:25 Give to everyone who begs from you and from one who takes away your goods, do not demand them back. But do you wish that others would do to you, do so to them. Wow. Wow. I think that's, we probably should read that every morning to start our morning because we're going to get offended. That's how you give up the right to be offended. Yeah, exactly. Now, so let's talk a little bit about that. So don't tell anyone what they've done. In verse two, he said, he said, proof that you've totally forgiven a person is you won't let them feel fear from you. In other words, you'll get in their space. You won't run away. You won't walk away when they talk to you.

41:10 You just act like nothing's happened because you've totally given it to the Lord. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. That's a hard one. That is. For a lot of people. We want people to feel something. We want them to know how hurt we are. We want them to. It doesn't mean we don't have boundaries with people, but if you see them in a grocery store, you don't have to run. You just go about your business. That's right. Which leads us to number three. We help them to forgive themselves. Never throw up what they did. Never throw it back in their face. Put them at ease. Man, that's total forgiveness. That is. When you're so secure in who you are in Christ that you didn't own what they were offended at you or how they offended you or whatever they said or whatever the hurt, but you actually helped them to forgive themselves.

42:02 Now, obviously, that doesn't always happen in a verbal exchange. Right. It's really more about the poise and the nature, how you carry yourself. Exactly. Not with self-confidence, but with Christ confidence. I love that. Big difference. Self-confidence is all about me. It's pride. Man, I'm a lion. It's pride. I'm a king. But it's pride. It's vanity. It's vain. But Christ confidence understands that I stand in the righteousness of God. He's made me righteous. And so we help them to forgive themselves, one, by never throwing it back up to them. How often do you... How often have you heard this? Now, I've been in these scenarios where someone says, hey, I'm sorry for what happened, but let me tell you why I did it.

42:49 Or I forgive you for what you did, even though that hurt me. Even though that's not really forgiving. Man, that's not forgiveness. That is not forgiveness in any way. We need to change our language and we need to own that. We need to learn how to walk in this. So put them at ease. The only way you can put someone at ease is you got to be at ease yourself. You can't fake this. This is where the Holy Spirit works in our life, living his life in us and through us. Number four, we let them save face. We don't rub their noses in it. In other words, husband and wife get into a tiff and you say, you shouldn't have done that, or I forgive you, but it's the same thing.

43:33 We can continually bring up things from the past, which we've all done that. Sometimes where there's been offense and conflict, one or both parties are actually embarrassed about how they acted. They're embarrassed about what they said or they're like, man, I want to say I'm sorry, but man, I can't. But if you're the bigger person and you're in Christ's confidence, not self-confidence, then what you're able to do is you're able to let them save face. Number five, I'll finish this, we protect them from their darkest secret because if they've done something that's really wrong, trauma. And we go tell everybody we're not protecting them.

44:16 You know, that's pretty dangerous. That means you have given up the right to hold on. You've given up the right to be offended. You're leaving me. I'm just going to go. We have a roast in the oven. We have a roast in the oven and I have to go get it out real quick. I'll land the plane on these. Take Chevy with you. See you, Mr. Chevy. So we let them save face. We don't rub our noses in it. Number five, we protect them from their darkest secret. I just said that. And that is so powerful when you care about another person so much that you say, you know what, I'm just going to keep this. I'll never talk about this again. I'm going to let it go. And then number six, forgiveness is a lifetime commitment because you don't twit.

45:00 Years later, pick it up and say their name. I just said number six and she's back. I'm back and Chevy's back. So number six, it's a lifetime commitment. He said this is something, you know, 20 years later, you think, oh, statute of limitations have run out. So now, now I can talk about it and bring their name up. No, it's a lifetime commitment to love your enemy, to pray for them, to bless them. And that was something he brought up over and over. And this is number seven, we bless them. This is acting, this is walking in accordance to the scripture, walking in obedience to his word, to where we actually, when you see a car that looks like their car and you have that...

45:47 Visceral reaction. That angst comes up. That's when you pray for them. That's just a reminder. Let that be a God tap. Well, and how many times have we led a church where something happened in the congregation with some people, leaders, and they're gone and people are coming to their own conclusions about what happened because you're not as a leader saying exactly what happened, but you're trying to protect them. You're trying to bless them out rather than tell the whole church. How many times have we had someone say, if you would just tell the church, no, if they come up with their own conclusions, that's their own problem.

46:30 But I'm not going to out somebody. Jesus is very clear. Love your enemies. You do good to those that hate you. You bless those who hurt you. You pray for those who abuse you. And in being pastors in ministry, this has happened many times. Over and over and over. And we always say, our little saying to each other is there's only one road. It's the high road. There is no low road. There is no opportunity to make us look better by throwing somebody under the bus. And there have been occasions where we could have said to somebody, well, let me tell you what happened. And they would have been, oh, my gosh, no wonder. Yeah, they needed to go. They needed to move on.

47:11 But we don't. And it makes us, sometimes we end up looking, having egg on our face. Yeah, we've had people leave the church because of something they assumed happened. That they assumed. That didn't happen, but we couldn't tell them. We were trying, we were doing, taking the high road. That's a hard one. It is. It really is. We all want people to think well of us. And there are just times as a follower of Christ, you just have to take the high road and take it and keep that for the Lord. Because again, it's a lifetime commitment. We're protecting people from their darkest secrets. And we're blessing them. That's a powerful, powerful thing, isn't it? It is. Very powerful. So, what do we say to people listening that are hearing this? Well, and the reason why I was so moved and was just in tears is because I haven't always mastered this.

48:00 And so I had to think of a few people that are in, that has happened recently, you know, in the last ten years. A couple years. And I have a friend that has hurt me so deeply, and I do. I have that visceral reaction when I see a car or I see them. And it's, I want to let it go. I want to, because one of the things he said, if you want a greater anointing, then this is what you have to do. Have to do. Not, you know, you should. No, you have to do this.

48:40 The way he said it to me, because I felt like it was personal to me when he was speaking, I just, I had to let it go. So I went into the bathroom and he had a prayer he said, had people stand up at Gateway that are ready to totally forgive, and he had them say a prayer out loud. I went in the bathroom, I said it out loud. I thought, I don't care if anybody's in here or not. I was a little under my breath, but still loud enough. I love that about you. Well, because I thought, this is important. I want God to know I'm serious about this. And so I am crying, and I am asking God to forgive me for things I've said, but also help me continually totally forgive these people every day.

49:28 Now, I may have to do it every day. Which means it'll be a reminder to bless them and pray for them. Yes, and I blessed and prayed. Beautiful. I'm not going to cry hard because a part of me doesn't want that to happen because I'm angry for what they did to us, but I can't. That's not what God would want. So I literally, it was real. It was not, well, I did it because it was the end of a message. Because a lot of people do. They have a moment. They'll have a moment. This was not a moment. This was a, okay, God, I'm standing up. I'm in the bathroom, where the toilets are.

50:08 I'm standing up and I am saying this prayer by faith that you know my heart, that I need to forgive once and for all and let this go. Now, does it mean the hurt goes away? No. Not right away. It will take time, but I know it will go away. There's a freedom that comes because when we release them, it unlocks the door to our own prison. Yes. And I want, much like he said, I want revival. I want our church and the people that are in our sphere of influence to thrive in the Lord. I want them to be overcomers. I want them to live up in a down world. Absolutely.

50:48 And if you and I as leaders don't walk this out, we can't expect everybody else to either. You're right. I think this is definitely a message you should preach to the church in your own words. Definitely. It is so powerful. Everything he said was right on and it was life changing for me today. I felt as I was standing there saying that prayer, I felt a release of it doesn't matter. What does it matter? You've moved on. They've moved on. God's doing a new thing in you. Let it go. It feels good. It feels really good.

51:29 I love it. It's a peace that I can see it on you. It's settling on you. And I love it. You're already anointed, girl. You're so powerful. You're so strong. I want that double anointing that Elisha got from Elijah. I'm with you totally on this. What we've learned through the years, I do a lot of preaching. You've done a lot of teaching through the years. There's always a decision to be made. Whenever I hear a message, whether I'm watching something on YouTube or listening on a podcast, it brings me to a point of decision. What am I going to do about this? Now that I've heard this, what is my response to it? And I would encourage you that's listening. If you, not if, whoever you are hurt with, whoever has damaged you, and it could be a number of people.

52:18 I mean, we probably all have an enemies list. If we were to just sit down and think of how many people I need to forgive and I need to release. And it doesn't mean you have to go to them. No, no, no, no. Because that can be dangerous. That's not always good. No, that can be, yeah, that's not necessary. This is something you do between you and the Lord. And it's a commitment to pray for them and bless them, but to go up to somebody out of the blue. And I've had, unfortunately, as a pastor. Yes, and you didn't even know you offended them. And they, I forgive you. And you're like, what? Oh, so thank you. I know. I'm not sure how to. So that's never good. It's between you and God. And keep it between you and God. Absolutely. Absolutely. So I want to encourage you, maybe this will help you and maybe you need to sit back and take a moment, take a God pause and say, Lord, who am I holding things against?

53:13 Because you're holding them hostage. Which holds you hostage. Which holds you hostage because God can't do through you what he really wants to do because there's a barrier. Same thing with that other person. So that, you know, this is what I love about a lot of pastors feel like they've learned it all or they know it all. I feel like we're always learning. It's ever learning, ever growing. And if we don't, we have to grow just like anybody else because we live in a fallen world. And I don't ever want to be stagnant. No. If we ever do, we need to quit the ministry. But I want to constantly be growing. And even if it's the same thing over and over, that's okay because we're going to get offended over and over.

53:57 There's going to be people come and go out of our lives. And we can't afford to let anything fester. We have to let it go. So a question kind of to rephrase what Pastor R.T. said, you know, he says, do you want a greater anointing? I would say to you listening, do you want greater empowerment to thrive? Yes. Greater empowerment to live up in a down world. Greater empowerment to express joy and find good in this life instead of things always seeming dark and bleak. It is a down world, but you can live up in it. Well, it may be there's a stronghold on your life that's keeping you from something that you desire, that's keeping you from getting over that hump.

54:40 And it may be because there's unforgiveness there that needs to be taken care of. And I see people in oppression. That's usually the first thing I think of. Absolutely unforgiveness. Unforgiveness. So let me give that scripture again, because if you're listening, you may have thought, wow, blew through that. I'm going to try to go back and find it, but I'll help you with that. It's Luke chapter six, starting in verse 27. You can read the following verses. Luke six, 27. I encourage you spend some time in that. I mean, the lectio divina would be good. That means just mull it over, meditate, pray, read over and over. Don't move on to 16 verses.

55:21 Camp out on these few verses and then respond and then actually activate it. Do it, apply it and say, okay. So it says that I'm to love my enemies. I'm to do good to those who hate me. I'm to bless those who curse me and I'm to pray for those who abuse me. So in the name of Jesus, I lift up, I bless, I speak life over. I'm telling you, it is hard to stay mad and stay in angst and tore up when you're praying for them. That is the quickest way to get over it. And I'm not telling you to just get over it. I'm just saying, let's obey the word. And it's our flesh that wants bad things to happen to them.

56:01 Oh, no doubt. That's not the heart of God. That's our flesh. And we've got to break that fleshly habit. And it's not the heart of our true identity because our true identity is spirit. It's in Christ. So our flesh is not our true. That's our false self trying to keep reminding me, hey, I'm still here. You know, yeah, you're a Christian, but I'm still here. No, no, that's a false self. And it's time Christians start acting like Christians and quit acting like the world. Oh, now you're starting to preach, girl. And I'm in that. All of us. We're all in that. We're all in it together. Yes, we are. Friends and family, we are in this thing together. And so we want you to be, we want you to thrive. Just what we're talking about. To live up, to thrive.

56:42 And that's our heart for you. Hey, just want to say after this last last week, our this is what I heard when I started looking for crickets, crickets. That means there was nothing. It was silent. I mean, we got no response, no feedback, nothing. And so I want to encourage you, whatever app you're listening on, I would encourage you to try a couple of new apps, go to fountain and you can find the fountain app. It's a podcast app under iOS or under Android. So download that to your phone and listen. You can give feedback through Boostergrams. You can earn Bitcoin while you're listening.

57:22 It's a fantastic platform. And then go to our website, give us a review, leave a note, let us know that you hear us. Because when it, when it does this, it's like, wait, did this even go out over the air? Should we keep doing this? I know it makes you wonder sometimes. It does. It makes you wonder. And the thing about fountain is that you can practice what's called value for value. And that is if you like what we're doing, and if this content is helpful to you and this podcast is encouraging you, then you can, you can share that and say, Hey, you've been a value to me. So I want to be a value to you. And I can do that through a donation or through, through giving time, talents and treasure. And so we'd love for you to do that.

58:03 You can do that. Also sign up for our newsletter. You'll subscribe on our website, livingupandandownworld.com. I'll get your, your email address and I will put that on our list. And we send out, typically on Sunday, we send out our weekly newsletter. It's just a short update or reminder. Hey, the show's coming tomorrow. I may put some things in there, some pictures, just, Hey, this is what's going on. But we'd love for you to get more involved, more connected. And we want to be interactive with you. And we want to hear from you what you would like to do. What you would like to hear us talk about, what would help you, what would encourage you. But if we don't hear from you, we don't know. So we, we don't want to just keep shooting in the dark.

58:44 We want to respond to you. And forgiveness is one of the things that keeps coming up with people. Which is why when we listened to that today, it was perfect. Just perfect. We were perfect. What was that? That is your, is that our timer telling us we're done? Yes. Hey family, we love you guys and we just want you to have an amazing week. Yes. And live up in a down world. What do you got to say on the way out? Well, I'm excited to see what the week's going to bring and we'll talk with you in a week. See you in a week. Look forward to hearing from you. Bye bye.