"Pro Tip: Nobody's Perfect"

0:00 This is Jimmy Internet and we are living up in a down world. We are coming to you this morning, barely morning, actually it's literally afternoon, about two minutes. We are coming to you live and in person and in my pajamas. This is Monday, usually on Monday we take our Sabbath.

0:43 Sometimes we don't even make the bed on Mondays. I said that out loud. Our kids are going to fall over if they hear this. Nobody should be coming over. It's a Sabbath. It's a Sabbath. We're supposed to rest. It's a rest day, it's a recovery day because Sundays are always crazy, amazing, brutal. Yesterday was really long. But it was good because we had two services and then we had an event. Membership class. Yeah, membership class right after the service. So that's just like you're on from the second you get there. And then the night before we went out with a bunch of people. What were we thinking? What were we thinking? Why did I say yes to that? It was actually a lot of fun. It was. But Saturday nights are really hard for us.

1:24 We didn't get, because there were storms in the area too and we were dodging those. The best was driving back. It took us, I guess we didn't get to bed until after midnight. Which is a big no-no for us on Saturday night. On a Saturday night when you have to get up at what time. We're not exactly party animals. So we had a great time. Great people though. And you know, it was such a reminder that we get to do life with people. That's what living up in a down world is all about. It's finding the good in everything and saying, wow, this is a great moment. I need to capture that in my mind. I took some pictures while we were there. But just the people that we were with, they all attend our church.

2:05 There were 16 of us total. 16 of us. Which is amazing that you can get 16 people to commit to an evening out. No kidding. And they were fun. This is a fun group of people that, they're life lovers. Most of them are on the edge of retirement or semi-retired. And they're just, they're in this really good place in life. And they meet together a lot as a group. Like a connect group. They have a group of other people that they meet with. Just to talk about the Bible. Do life together. Have fun together. And so they invited us into their world. And we just had such a great time. In the middle of that, I had a moment where it was really loud.

2:46 We were in this restaurant out in Utopia, Texas. Which is really cool. Seven days of Utopia. Seven days in Utopia. Yes, that's where the movie was filmed. Was in that town. In that little town with Robert Duvall. But it's a neat place. And it's a beautiful part of the Hill Country. And that's where we live in the middle of the Hill Country. It's about an hour and a half, near a two hour drive over there. But it's so beautiful. And it's this restaurant. And this lady is a chef who's trained in Paris and all these high places. And she makes amazing food. Farm to table type stuff. The whole place is beautiful. You drive up and you're like, oh wow. This is paradise.

3:26 And so we had a great time. We all went together. We rented a bus. It was like a big limousine. Because you didn't just sit. You faced each other when you were sitting. Right, right. So you could talk the whole way and engage. We offered drinks and snacks. It was great. It was really neat. It was neat. What a great way to go out with a bunch of friends. And so anyway, we did that. And in the middle of all that, I had a moment where I'm sitting there. I've been having these engaging conversations. It's loud. It's raucous. Because it's just good people having a good time. And I just had that moment. Jesus would literally, if He was here in the flesh in person, He would literally be in the middle of this.

4:07 He sure would. He would be enjoying this. It reminded me of how Jewish people do life together. They wine and dine. They have fun. They're jovial. They're loud. They are loud. You think they're always mad at each other the way they talk to each other. That's just their nature. That's their nature. That Eastern way. And I just had that moment. And of course, as I was thinking, and I said, but you are here. You're literally here in the middle of all this. But if you were alive and in person, He would have been right in the middle of that. Right. And Tina and Adam joined us as well. And of course, we're all talking to Adam. And he's telling lots of amazing stories, as he always does.

4:49 That brother is fascinating. He is. And by the end of the evening, he literally had very little voice. And I was worried for him. Which is not good for the pod father to lose his voice. No, that's how he makes a living, much like you. We both make a living with our mouths. So I was worried because the next day he's doing his No Agenda podcast. Huge podcast. Three hours long of just talking. And I was worried for him. I was too. I was praying for him. And I was concerned for him. I reached out to him after the show. And he had pressed through. I was OK. I haven't listened. I want to hear it. I want to pull it up to see what his voice sounds like. But speaking of Adam and Tina Curry, just one quick boost to our friends.

5:33 He is the pod father. He invented podcasting 18, 19 years ago with another guy. And he's the reason why anybody has a podcast. Millions of people have podcasts now. Because of him. And it's because he had a dream. He had a vision of what it could be to make a platform where people could have a voice. And what I love about Adam is he continues to dream. And he has more dreams that he's releasing to us little by little. And it's interesting. I'm really excited to see what God's going to do with him. Because his dreams are changing. I saw the eye of the tiger when he was telling us about it. I'm like something's going to happen. Because he's got to fix on something.

6:14 And he really feels the Lord's leading him in this. And man, I'm excited to be on the journey with him and see how that goes. But I want to encourage you to check out their podcast, Curry and the Keeper. They've been going over a year with that podcast. And they're so delightful. They're such amazing people to use Tina's word. They're lovely people. She uses that a lot. I think that is beautiful. They're lovely. I do too. I don't think I've ever met anybody that used that word to describe people. I've kind of absorbed it in my vocabulary too. Tina and I, we spend so much time together that I'm taking some of her vocabulary. Because it's so beautiful.

6:55 It really is. I have an Adam taking one of your anettisms. He said, that's so funny. You're so funny. Which is what I've said for 30 years. The virus has hit. We're all starting to settle in. That's what happens when you spend a lot of time together. And by the way, last week we got to attend the Mercy Me concert. That was a great segue, by the way. Very smooth. You're like a pro. I'm learning from the best, Adam Curry and Tina. You're looking at me, but you said Adam's name. Tina is who I'm really listening to and trying to take notes on how she does it.

7:35 Let's talk about what happened last Sunday. We talked a little bit leading up to it in the last show about how Michael Schusner, I cannot pronounce his last name. I'm sure he'll text you when he hears this. He'll be listening to this. Michael, he's one of the guitar players, Barry's the other guitar player. Michael reached out to me in regards to Adam Curry. I won't go into the detail of that. But it ended up being they invited us to their concert in San Antonio at the Boeing Tech Center, which is a new venue, very cool venue. And Micah Tyler was fronting them and Taya, who is from Hillsong. She's the one who sings Oceans, so she's known by that.

8:17 So they were the front bands and they did a fabulous job. It was really good. But there was a whole other level when Mercy Me came on the stage of production and sound and sights and Spirit, Holy Spirit was in that place. So I'd been in contact with Michael. We arranged it. As soon as we were done with, we had to wait on Adam because he was doing the No Agenda podcast. And he had to finish at five and then we had to get on the road. Because it started at seven and they wanted us there early enough so they could visit with us. We're going to just hang out backstage, meet some guys. I think we got there at 6.20, something like that.

8:59 Worked out perfect though. And we're sitting there trying to get in the back parking lot where the buses are parked. And security's like, no, no, no. I don't see your name on here. And we're like, dude, we're with the band. Did you feel special? I did when Michael came and got us. He walked out and saw us. And he said, no, no, let them in. And it wasn't because he's like, let Adam in. Totally about Adam. I know that. I have no problems with that. We were just along for the ride. But it was such a sweet ride. So anyway, him and then Nathan, the bass player, came out. And then Barry, the other guitar player, came out. And they're big time fans of Adam and John DeVorek.

9:41 Michael had a t-shirt on that he made. He had a t-shirt made, a merch t-shirt that had a Kareem DeVorek. He said consulting company or something. It was hilarious. So hilarious. He wore it through the concert. He did. It was great. We got some great pictures of that. So we just hang out with those guys and got to know them and had great conversations. I have to tell you about Mercy. I got to brag on these guys. Before I brag on their music, I got to brag on them. Those guys, they're the real deal. They are genuine. They really are. They're down to earth. They are unpretentious. They do not have the superstar. They're one of the biggest bands in Christian music. They had so much humility. Oh, they're just great guys.

10:21 They weren't like I had thought in my head could happen. I didn't think they'd be that way. I really didn't. We lived in Nashville. We've been around a lot of that. But I've seen some. But I didn't know. I never saw that on them. It was really, they were beautiful. I mean, it was just amazing. They were. It was amazing. We got to meet Scott Brickell. Scott Brickell, if you ever saw the movie, I can only imagine. And if you haven't, see that movie. It's about Bartmiller, the lead singer's life in the band and how they got started. And it's a compelling story. It's a beautifully made movie. Great soundtrack. It is so well done. And Scott Brickell is the Nashville manager that found them and discovered them.

11:05 And Trey Atkins played him. Trace Atkins. I can see why Trace Atkins played him. I can too. Scott looks like Trace Atkins. I was dumbfounded when I saw him. He's got the big ponytail. He's got the look. But he's the nicest guy. Intimidating look. Is he so big? Well, yeah, he's a big guy. He's just a bit, well, I'm five. Oh, right, right. Almost five-three. Right. So yeah, I was pretty intimidated by his look. But he's been with them for 30 years. 30 years. He was with them from the beginning. He's still with them. And just so cool to see how he, as a handler, was around. And we got to be backstage before the concert. Then Michael walked us out to our seats.

11:47 Then Michael's son. Took us. Such a sweet kid. Took Tina and I and Adam to go pick out any merchandise we wanted. Get as much as you want. He said we couldn't do that. So while I'm waiting on y'all, the road manager, Daniel, comes out. And he sits with me. And I had asked about him earlier because John Lynch said, You've got to meet Daniel. Daniel, the road manager, he is such a heart for God. He's such a humble guy. Please, please connect with him. And he connected with you. Yeah. And so while you guys were out getting merch, I was sitting there waiting for the next show to come on and just had the most beautiful visit with Daniel about grace, about the message and life of grace and understanding the new covenant life that Jesus talks about.

12:35 That most of us don't have a clue what Jesus really did for us. No. How much the highest price bought the highest thing is our freedom. Not religion, but freedom and relationship. So Daniel and I going back and forth, it's like we're brothers from another mother moment where it's like, we've got to get time together somehow, so we're going to figure that out. But anyway, then the show came on. Oh my gosh, they just killed it with the production. The production factor is so high. My favorite was them sitting around. Was it a fake fire or was it? Yeah, honey, they're in a venue. There's a fire ring that looked real. It was a little far away from me because of my contacts.

13:18 They're sitting on little benches and they're doing a total acoustic moment. That was my favorite part of the whole concert. So the whole time, what was neat was to see 3,500. It was a sellout. Which they could have gone to a lot bigger venue. And Michael told me later that the San Antonio crowd was one of the best crowds on the tour. Just the energy, the engagement. I got goosebumps talking about it because I get emotional talking about it because when I see 3,500 people worshiping God together, there is something that is special about that and powerful. And boy, I didn't expect it to be a worship concert.

13:58 Well, I did a little bit because of them. But there really was an element of worship. And Bart Millard is such a great front guy because he's just very relaxed. He's very comfortable in his skin. He understands grace. Almost every song they write now is about grace and the power of grace. Explain grace. Grace is...so my professor, one of my favorite professors, Dr. Frankie Rainey, said grace is, and he used an acronym, God's riches at Christ's expense. So that Jesus paid the highest price for the greatest riches. What does that mean for us? It means this. Grace is God's power.

14:39 It's God's strength. It's God's ability. It's God's authority. And God's favor. And God's favor on our lives. It's not just unmerited favor, although it is, but if you ask most people, what is grace? Oh, that's God's unmerited favor. We'll define that. You get a blank stare. I don't know what that is, right. Because they've just heard that over and over. It's part of our Christianese that we have. But it really means you've got authority, power, favor, enablement. If it's just unmerited favor, Jesus didn't need unmerited favor. He was sinless. But what he did need was power. And grace is power. It says that when the apostles were working miracles, it says, and great grace was upon them.

15:20 That's not unmerited favor. It's actually an empowerment for miracles. So grace is a whole lot more. We have the empowerment to not sin. I mean, we sin, obviously. But I love what you said, and I've been with you 30 years, so I've heard this, that we're not sinners. We're saints who occasionally sin. Absolutely. And the thing is, is that we have the power to overcome that through the Holy Spirit. That is what grace is. It's the power to overcome sin. It doesn't have to rule and reign in our life. We literally can get above that. The Bible says that sin shall no longer be your master. Exactly. And that's what grace does. And so the message of grace, it's almost like, man, I don't want to say it and sound weird, but it's almost like being born again, again.

16:08 Because you do, you receive Christ, you get saved. Depending on what kind of church you're in and the theological stream they are, sometimes we can get saved by grace through faith, Ephesians 2-10, but then we end up in legalism and rule following. Exactly. And I grew up, because I'm a rule follower, and everything is used to... Well, everything used to be so black and white, and I had to do everything exactly like it was said. So even when I came to Christ, it was like, okay, God said we can't do this, we can't do this. But I was living an Old Testament Christian life.

16:50 Right, right. Not realizing... Old covenant. Yes. That's called. Yes. And so not realizing that what Jesus had actually done, because I was always, oh Lord, please forgive me, because I let you down. I messed up again. And yes, we do need to own up to when we're not up to par where we should be, obviously. But I wasn't living up in a down world, I was living down in a down world. Which is brutal. Because I was constantly... It's like, why do we even need to be saved if that's what it's about? Exactly. Where it's just, you're dragging your faith and your Christianity around like a ball and chain. Well, I was trying to please Him, because I always wanted to please my family that I grew up in.

17:35 So here's another way to say that. You learned performance. You were performing. I was performing. You were trying to score brownie points. Instead of just resting in His love for me no matter what, and living my life out of gratitude for what He's done. What a difference. Man, to live a grateful life, that's living up in a down world. It is. When you're grateful, and when you can find in any situation, which is a high valley, I mean a high mountain or a low valley, you can find good. You can see the good in it. You can see the gold in the hills. Which brings me to your message yesterday. You started a new series called No Perfect People Allowed.

18:18 Which, you know, you've been saying this for seven years in our church. And we have an invisible sign. We always ask people, what does it say? And I love when they repeat back. I wish they would wait to put that on the screen so that... I know, they did a cheat sheet. Yeah, it's like, alright, come on. Because I have this thing I do where I go, alright everyone, what does that sign say on the wall over there? Of course there's no sign over there, but we've done this so long. And everyone yells out, No Perfect People Allowed. And so that's how we kicked off the series, just saying, that's what this is about. I really feel God's grace and favor on this series. I had planned to do this a while back, and then I noticed that Pastor Robert Morris at Gateway Church was doing a series called Divinely Human, which is basically the same thing.

19:05 It's the same thing. We're both divine. We have the Elohim element in us, the image of God. But we also are human. So we have both, and we are partakers, or part-takers. We take part of it, because right now we see in part, prophesy in part, all that. But there will be a day when we will be known, and we will fully know. It's going to be glorious. And that's all about the heaven piece that we talked about. So if you're listening today, first of all, welcome to the broadcast. We're so glad you're here. Our heart for you, and the only reason we're doing this, is because we want to encourage you, whoever you may be. This may be the first time you've ever listened to us, and you're going, Oh, they're going down the Jesus thing.

19:48 Yeah, we are. That's who we are. And we're going to be who we are. That's who we live our life for. I want to encourage you, if you have not ever engaged Christianity, to even look at it, because you might have had a bad experience. Because sometimes Christians can be knuckleheads. Really? Just say it like it is. We can be dorks, where people get hurt. But that's the divinely human piece. No perfect people allowed. And I want to help you understand, if you ever meet anyone who's a Christian, and they're coming off as perfect, just know they're not telling the truth. We all struggle. Right now we see in part, we know in part. Run, forest, run. I love that. Jenny. But anyway, I love that movie.

20:31 So I started down that track yesterday. And I love how you started it with your story. I told the story of my divorce, again, which I've told several times. I didn't get into all the details. But I had to have my own grace awakening. Yes, you did. Because when you're standing there, when you're in your last two semesters of your graduate degree, your seminary degree, you're already on staff at a church, you just got promoted to full-time, and it looks like things are going really good. And then the bottom drops out. Literally everything falls off. That is life. It never drops out at the right time. Hello. Yeah, it was not convenient. It was not a good time.

21:12 You could have waited a year and a half. Not even a year and a half, another year I would have finished right then. So I ended up having to go back to my campus, and I call it the Walk of Shame, where I had to go to all my professors and say, I don't know if I can stay. My wife just left me. Did they encourage you to stay, or did they say, you need to do what you need to do? No, they were great. Every one of them were so kind and so gracious. And they referred me to a counseling program there at the school. They have a huge counseling department there at Southwestern Seminary in Fort Worth. And they said, look, you get free counseling. Go over. And I went over there, and they got me right in, and I sat down with a guy, and man, he just walked me through some basic things and gave me some perspective.

21:59 And it was great, and it was gracious. And what you didn't tell the church, which, you know, we have a lot of new people. Right. But we'll say it here, is your church did a vote. What happens in the Baptist church? The elders do a vote. It wasn't the elders, it was the whole church. The whole church, sorry. It's called a vote of confidence. They call it a special meeting. I didn't know it was a whole church. It has to be like the Salem witch trials. Oh my gosh. Burn witch, burn witch. That's how you feel. But they do a vote of confidence. A vote of confidence. Gosh, can you imagine getting a no? Just to let you know, if you're going to get to stay as a pastor, or if you're out because you're going through the...

22:39 It was brutal. I almost quit before they did that, because I thought, I can't take another humiliation, another rejection. No. Because already, it was like... I can't even imagine. I felt like I had the scarlet letter on my head already. Here I am a pastor. And the ministry was fruitful. Our student ministry had exploded. You did have some deacons in the church. You had mentioned that... Deacons, yeah. They weren't elders. They were deacons. They were very... They were a little bit mean, I'll just put it that way. They didn't care for you that much. But I have to be honest, I was pretty edgy. Well, you are a little edgy. Yeah, well, I wasn't raised in church. So I didn't know all the right things to say and do. So here I am, this young youth minister.

23:20 But let me just say, the youth ministry was thriving. Things were going great. And then when the wheels fell off, I thought, these guys are going to crucify me, these deacons. And they didn't. And they didn't. They showed me grace. And they said, we want you to stay. The whole church voted for you to stay. They did. But you said, I can't. I thanked them that night. I went back to where I was staying. I'm glad you didn't, because you wouldn't have moved to Lubbock and we would not have met. No, it all worked out. God, it all works together for good, right? So I prayed for that week. I met with my pastor, who was wonderful, Pastor Don Longoria, if you ever hear this.

24:00 You're still friends with him. Just know I love you. And we'll never forget how you showed grace to me as a young man and as a friend. You were gracious to me, and you were gracious to my ex-wife, too. You did the right thing in everything. And so thank you. If you ever hear this, I love you and appreciate you and value you. So the next week, I really felt like I don't think I can stay and heal. I had been there for four years. So her and I had so many friends in the church. It's a small, small town. Yeah, small town. Everybody knows you. It would not have been a great deal. I think it would have prolonged my healing, and I needed to get on the road to recovery. Yes, because God needed to you to meet me at the end of that year.

24:44 That's exactly right. The next Sunday, I got up, and I tendered my resignation and just wept. How was the church? What was the response of the church when you did that? Oh, family. It was like somebody being deployed overseas and not knowing if you'll ever see them again. It was just hugs and love, and they were just gracious and beautiful, lots of tears. That was hard. Wow. That was hard. I actually thought I would be there a long time. I fell in love with our little community. You talked about it to me for years. I've never aspired for big stuff. I'm just not that guy. No, you never have. I'm not ambitious. So I've never chased big things.

25:24 I've just chased God things. And if it's in a smaller town, a smaller church, I'm great with that. I just want to be in the center of God's will. No matter where it is. Not in building my kingdom or build His. And God's been so gracious through the years. So here we are, and then we meet after that. So I want to move away from that. So I told that story, just not all the details, but I told that story. And when you went to that Bible? So yeah, here's, let me land the plane on this story. So I go to the Baptist bookstore, which is called Lifeway there on the edge of the seminary campus. I walk in the store, there's thousands of books in the store, thousands. And it's where you did all your books, buying for classes, and then everything else.

26:08 So it's a full large store. I walk in and I'm thinking, I need to find a book. But I had no idea what. I didn't talk to anybody. Nobody had given you any indication? I just walked in and I looked at one of the first shelves or ranks of books I came to. There was a book, however, once in a while you walk in, people have pulled them out and they don't put them back in, they just set them there. There was one sitting there facing me on the bottom shelf too. And I just walked in and noticed it. And it was a book by Chuck Swindoll called The Grace Awakening. And when I read that book, it set me free. It changed your life. It changed my life. So you were talking about grace long before others.

26:51 Oh, I was a grace guy long before grace was turned into a cool… But you were a…there are some grace messages, I just have to say this, that have gone way too far and they don't have grace for people who don't. Yeah, sometimes grace people can be ungracious. They can. And so you've never been there. You've always been gracious towards everyone and yourself even. And so you have a different message, I think, than most of the grace messages we've heard. I appreciate that. I think partly because I didn't get the grace message through a teaching or through theory. Exactly.

27:31 That's the difference. I had to live it. I had to grab hold of the hymn of Jesus' Karmic. And you had to dig into the Word about what the Word says. What does the Bible say? Yeah, exactly. It's just like when you lead communion and you talk about this is the new covenant. That's what Paul said when Jesus was given out the wine. He said, this is my blood of the new covenant. Oh, there it is. That's it. That one little phrase changed everything. And we as Americans and Westerners, we don't see that because we don't have a history of law and the sense of having to live under the 613 rules and all that of the Old Testament, the Old Covenant.

28:14 So we don't have that perspective. But to a Jewish person, for someone to say the new covenant, they're going, what new covenant? There's only one covenant. Well, actually, there was multiple covenants. Noah's covenant, Moses, Abraham. There were covenants, but there was the primary covenant, the Levitical, where all the Levitical writings came out of. And the laws came out. That's the law. And they talk about the covenant. That's what they're talking about. And for that Jewish person to be introduced to a new covenant, I have to believe that the table, the atmosphere, the barometric pressure probably changed in that room. Changed, because they're like, what? We've never heard of anything like this. Wait, about that new covenant. You know they were like, what?

28:57 And that new covenant meaning Jesus died once for all. We don't have to go slay an animal. We don't have to. No more blood has to be spilled. Sorry, my phone's going off. So that's like, what? Now, we don't understand that, because we didn't grow up that way. We didn't grow up in a Jewish or Eastern culture, so we don't even have a concept of covenants. We're all about contracts, which are easily broken. In fact, contracts are almost made to be broken. You know, we always look for the loopholes. So that's our culture. We don't understand the power of covenant. But as you grow in Christ, hopefully you learn. You study. That's why we're supposed to study, to show ourselves approved unto God, the Scripture says.

29:39 And so as we study and learn, we find that, oh my gosh, what Jesus was talking about was a game changer. It's massive. It means I no longer have to labor under the rules and regulations. I'm free to live. That's the whole point of the new covenant, is free to live. Again, some people take that to where I can do whatever I want. Well, why would you want to do something that's not good for you or pleasing to God? Why? Exactly. It's called a relationship. Because same thing. I would never want to do anything that's unpleasing to you or that's going to hurt your and my relationship. We would never do that intentionally. We may do that accidentally, because life happens.

30:20 Right. We say we're not perfect. Caught in a moment. Right. Exactly. No perfect people allowed. So what happens is that people labor under the law, and then you find grace. And that's what the whole point of grace is, is to realize that whom the Son sets free, the scripture says in John 8.36, is free indeed. Free. I mean, you are free to live. Jesus said this in John 10. The thief comes only except to steal, kill, and destroy. And then Jesus says this, but I came that you that might have life and have it to the full. More abundantly. More abundantly. Over the top is what it means. And so Jesus, that's why Jesus came.

31:01 So we could live, like we could do, go to a concert with MercyMe, and just dance and praise and shout and sweat and have fun and meet people. God was meeting people all around us. And meet, that's life to the full. It's going out with a group of 16 people in a big limousine bus to eat at this amazing place and have great food, great fun, great fellowship, great drink, great everything, because we were sharing life. And that's what Jesus died for. And to think that God, who is a good Father, would look down on us and want us to live horrible lives or want us to be depressed and hopeless.

31:48 No, the whole point is life to the full, which means sometimes you have to find that life in a down world. And that's why we name this, living up in a down world. You really do have to find it. Based on John 10, 10 basically, that He came to give us life. And I'm a champion for it. Our worship pastor, I love Pastor Russ. Russ Hearn and Wendy are the most precious people. They really are. He says, Jimmy, you're a missionary to the church. He said, I feel like God's called you to awaken the church to the life that they're missing. They may be saved, they may be Christians, they may attend church and do all the churchy things, but they still haven't found life in it.

32:29 You're here to introduce them to life. And so, yeah, I'm a positive guy. I don't just see the bucket half full. I see it overflowing. Because I've lost everything. I know what it's like to be without. I know what it's like to go through the valley of the shadow. And you didn't lose everything because you did something wrong. You lost everything because you did a lot of right things. But this is what happens in a fallen world. I mean, we have challenges that come up. And for you listening, I mean, every time, let me just put it this way, I'll be crass. Every time crap happens, you have a choice to make. Am I going to let this take me down, or am I going to find the good in it?

33:12 Because there's always good in it. There's always hope. You lose your hope, you've lost everything. And so that's one thing I never let go of. There's always something to learn in every challenge that we go through. Absolutely. And I think God allows us. He allows things because we live in a fallen world. So crap's going to happen. Maybe we learn how to forgive one another. We learn how to love one another better. Even when we've been wronged. You know what I'm saying? It's not about getting revenge on someone. It's about God, okay, I was wronged by these people. So how do I handle this?

33:53 And what can I learn from it? What can I learn so that I can help others who get damaged by other people be able to walk this out? We ask the question, how can I live a higher life? Okay, there's only one road, right? Everybody says, well, there's a high road and a low road. I believe there's only one. It's the high road. And it hurts sometimes to take the high road because that means you can't take revenge. You can't go seek validation for yourself. Because the first thing we do when we get hurt, we go rally friends. And we want people to tell you, I'm okay. You're okay. You didn't do anything wrong. We do that. That's human nature is to rally people for validation. But when you take the high road, you have to say, I choose to live above it.

34:35 My reputation gets tarnished because I didn't throw somebody under the bus. We had that happen to us in church. We had some people leave. And people that have been in the church a long time said, why didn't you announce to the whole church? No, why would we do that? What really happened? It's none of their business. First of all, I'm not going to put anybody down who's left our church, whether they were mad or not. To me, I look at the bigger picture, and that's living up in a down world from a higher perch. I grew up two blocks from Texas Tech University in Lubbock. And they had their big band field out up against 19th Street.

35:15 And so we drove by it all the time. And they had this big tower, like an eagle's nest, where the band director, he was up in this massive tower so he could look down onto the field and direct the team, which is the band. He could direct the team. And he had a microphone up there. Because he's up there, he can see the whole picture. He had a better view. He had a better perspective. And so I've chosen, and it's a hard choice sometimes, because I want to validate, too. I want people to tell me I'm okay. I don't want to be blamed or get thrown under the bus and then not be able to throw somebody back under the bus. But the higher road dictates. That's not the way you live a Christian life.

35:56 The higher road dictates you just eat it and keep moving forward. You said you love your enemies. You pray for your enemies. It doesn't mean it doesn't hurt. I've shared things with friends of mine, especially Tina, that out of my hurt, but not to put people down, but to say, this is hurt. This is my hurt that I'm having to deal with because it's a challenge in my life that we have to deal with. It's painful. I refuse to let it pull me all the way down. I can't live that way. So what you do and what we've had to do is we've had to set boundaries around our lives because we both live very open lives.

36:39 Well, we're in a fishbowl because we're pastors. We are. That's in so of our kids. And so we've just had to live that way. So we've never been real self-protective oriented. I told about my divorce in church on Sunday, and I had a guy reach out to me yesterday and wants to meet and talk to me about it because he was raised in a different kind of church. Can you be a pastor when you're divorced? He wasn't mean-spirited about it. He just wants to visit with you. I felt myself going, ah, here I was. I put myself out there to the whole church, and then I feel like I kind of got a... But I don't think it's that. He's a good guy, and I'm not worried. He just came out of a very conservative church background. He wants to talk about it.

37:19 So I'll talk to him about it. I will. I will. We'll open that up. But anyway, for you listening, first of all, our heart is so for you. I know I say it over and over. I'm a broken record on this, but it is true because we want you to find joy in the journey. We want you to live up in a down world, and we want to help you. I really appreciate it. I've had some folks write in this last week, and I've written back to them, and it's so good to hear from you. Go to our website. Downworld.com. How easy is that? LivingUpInADownWorld.com. I put my daily devotionals. I write a devotional every morning.

37:59 I've done this for nearly 20 years now. Maybe it is 20 years. I keep saying 18 years, four years ago. Over 20 years, I have written a devotional every morning, and I post it every morning on social media, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and then I put it on our website, LivingUpInADownWorld.com. It's under blog. Just click on blog, and you'll get it every day. Also, all of our podcasts on there. By the way, this is podcast number 16. Wow. It just time flies when you're having fun, right? It sure does. It is weird to think we've done 16 of these. I know. How much I've fought you for the first five. You were sick. You didn't feel good.

38:39 By the way, you're gorgeous. You're so sweet. I didn't even introduce Chevy today. Chevy's with us. He gets so excited. We sit down to do the podcast. He's like, oh my God. We were going to do it yesterday, and you were getting everything ready. He was like a little kid in a candy store waiting. He was so excited. Then I fell asleep. We were so tired. I was like, I'm sorry, I just need a little cat nap. It turned into a long cat nap. Then you said, let's just do it tomorrow. I appreciate that. I am going to go walk four miles in just a minute. You go, girl. You're on fire. I've got to go get dressed. You take off. I'm going to land the plane on the show.

39:19 I do want to say something to our listeners and thank them. I want to thank you for listening. I want to thank you for being with us. We so appreciate and so value you. That's why we're doing this podcast. We'd love to hear from you. I don't know what platform you listen to us on. If you would go to Fountain, it's an app. You can get on your phone. Just download the app. Find us on Facebook. Just download the app. Find us on Fountain. If you will listen to us on Fountain, you'll actually earn Satoshis. I mean, it's an amazing value for value platform. Podcast 2.0. It's something Adam Curry invented. What is it? Brilliant idea. But what it is basically, instead of us asking for donations to help us fund this and resource it, you can go to Fountain and literally just listen to it and you'll actually earn Satoshis while you're listening.

40:07 Then you can donate those sources to the foundation. You can donate those sources while you're listening. Then you can donate those forward. It really helps us continue this. We always want to broaden our platform. Of course, add equipment over time and all that. We're young and new and starting, but we're having a ball doing it. We hope you're encouraged. If there's any way we can help you, do write us. Do write us. I'll write you back personally because I do want to encourage you. Again, it's livingupandadoworld.com. Now, I'm also a pastor at Bridge Church in Fredericksburg, Texas. We have a thriving church that's growing and alive with God's Spirit. People are learning to live up in a down world and I'm telling you, you can feel it in the atmosphere.

40:47 But we actually put our services online. We broadcast, so we would love for you to check it out. It's at BridgeFBG.com. BridgeFBG.com. BridgeFBG.com. You can find, even on the front page, if you'll scroll down, you'll see the services and you can watch our services there. We're also on YouTube and you can find us at Bridge Church, Fredericksburg, Texas. If you'll just look it up. There is a Bridge Church, Virginia. Don't go there. It's a different church. Bridge Church, Fredericksburg, Texas. We have a channel there. All of our messages are online. We even keep the worship on there as well if you want to enjoy that. Or you can go always fast forward right to the message.

41:29 So, no perfect people allowed. That's the series we're doing. We're going to be talking about that and that night together on the program. So, we love you. Have an amazing day and an amazing week on purpose. Keep your buckets filled and go out there and leak life and make beautiful messes where you go. God bless.