"I Think She Just Coughed Up A Lung!"

0:00 We'll be right back. Don't get down when you're seeing the worst. Cause the last will be the first. What a day I'm telling you. All things will be new. Living up in a down world. Yeah we're living, yeah we're living. Living up in a down world. Oh! This is Jimmy and Annette and we are super excited to be with you today. And we've got Mr. Chevy sitting in his usual place. By the way, what kind of dog is Mr. Chevy? Why do you not remember that? Have a Shawn.

0:40 I don't understand why you can't remember that. Have a Shawn. I'll try to remember that. Have a Shawn. Have a Shawn, which is Havanese and Bichon. And he is totally... He is so chilled, he's laying. His eyes are half way closed. He's unbelievable. And it's because mama's rubbing his stomach right now. I know. Chest and belly. He's tired. He was so excited. He has had a hard day. When he saw this chair come over to your desk, he's like, okay, this is it. This must be Monday. And then you dilly-daddled a while because you were doing some stuff. I was doing laundry. You were taking care. Thank you by the way for doing that. You're welcome. I'm just saying it's really amazing what you do around here.

1:23 Thank you. Nothing would get done if I didn't do anything. Sorry, I shouldn't have said that. That's going to leave a mark. I know. Anyway, Mr. Chevy is chilled out, but he's happy to be here because he was as excited about doing the show as we are. And we are excited that you are here listening. Thank you for trusting us with time, which is one of the most valuable assets we all have. And today is our first day at sabbatical. This is a huge day. Oh my gosh. It's already been a busy day though. We didn't get to rest because we had a lot to do. And we'll explain a little bit about sabbatical because not everybody understands what that is. Some people think, hell, wow, so you get an extended vacation. Good for you guys.

2:03 No. Vacations mean you're working so hard because you're doing so much that when you get back you need a vacation. You need a vacation. We're not doing that. No. No, we're resting. And it's based out of scripture in the book of, well, I mean, like in the Old Testament there's two references to where God told the Israelites, the Hebrews, that every seven years they're to cease from their work and cease from their labors. And they're to let the land rest, which is kind of strange. We're not used to that kind of terminology, to let the land rest. But that's code for you have to rest. And you have to trust me for your provision and trust me that everything, that as you take your hands off of things, I've got it under control.

2:44 Right. Yeah. And I think for me the last two weeks have been pure, I mean, I have worked... Not just you. Me and Mr. Chevy have been busy too. Right. Yeah. Okay. Anyway, this is about me. I was so busy trying to get everything done for our board and elders and staff and making sure everything was in alignment so that we could go. And by the time yesterday came, I was so exhausted after church. I know. I know. It was crazy. I was asleep early last night. We were wiped out. I need this now. Okay. I know it's about you, but it's about me too and Mr. Chevy. I know. You just mainly... Good for you.

3:24 Okay. You're looking at me funny. I'm saying be careful. I know. You have to get someone to preach for you. There's just a lot I have to do, but it's okay. Okay. So you've got the administrative piece. Yes. I've got the people and logistical operations piece in terms of the messages, getting our staff ready, getting all of our guys prepared to step up into my place for eight... Solid weeks. Eight weeks. That's a long time. We have never done anything like this. Thirty-eight years I've been in ministry full-time in one capacity or another. Twenty-eight years for you. The whole time we were in Abilene, we didn't take actual vacations. We would take a day or two after we went to a ministry trip.

4:07 Right. We never just took off. Yeah, we'd go to a conference. We'd go to whatever was related to what we were doing, and then we'd tag a couple of days on and say, that's our vacation. It wasn't a vacation. It was work. No, because after you go to a conference, you should take a couple of days to rest. You're so tested. Not add more, and that's what we did. We were young and dumb, so we had to learn some more. Exactly, and still kind of are in a way. We still had to learn some more. Maybe not the young part. Well, right, but we had to learn some hard lessons about taking care of ourselves. Yes. And I mean, our hearts to go for the long haul. I have so many friends. Well, we love what we do. That's it. And I have so many friends in ministry that are not doing it anymore. They, for whatever reason.

4:47 They've brought out. They've brought out. I mean, burnout is a real deal thing. It really is. Yes. And most guys and gals who start in ministry don't end there. Right. They end up doing something else. Right. It does take a toll on you after a while, and most people, I don't ever expect people to understand the weight that we carry and the spiritual warfare that we deal with. Because if you've never been in our shoes, you'll never know. You'll never know. Just like I wouldn't pretend to be in somebody else's shoes because they're running in their lane and I can't even imagine what it would be like to put their shoes on and run in that race. Right. So I don't expect people to understand, but there's a weight that we carry. I mean, COVID did a number on pastors and ministers.

5:27 But you know what was hard? Today we went to lunch in Kerrville, had a really nice lunch at the Rails. Amazing lunch. And we rocked keto today. We did. We started our keto back because we thought, hey, why not? Reboot. Reboot is a good time to do it. Maybe we'll come back half the person we were. Just kidding. I don't know about half, but I'm definitely wanting to lose about 12 to 15. Yeah, me too. Yeah. So anyway, we went to the Rails and ate lunch. And that was wonderful. Great place in Kerrville, Texas. Wonderful, and then we had to go to Walmart for a little while just to spend time buying. That's how we did our first day of Sabbath. Show cards, yes. And that was, it was a lot of, it was, you know, to try to rest today.

6:07 We couldn't because there was so much we needed to do that started today. Right. But you know, it was hard because we got in the car and I wanted to ask you a question. About church. And I realized it was about church. About work. And so we sat there and said nothing. I thought, wow, this is an interesting conversation. Day one of six. Because our whole life revolves around the people of our church. It does. And we have a lot of work being done at our church. And it's probably all going to be complete when we get back. Construction. But I had all these things I wanted to talk to you about. And I had to stop and say, oh, I can't talk to you about church. It's because in terms of you and I getting married, we've done this together for 28 years.

6:51 Yes. And so all we, our whole life has revolved around ministry, the church. Our churches we served. So it's hard to come home and just leave it and turn it off. It's not like you work somewhere else and I work somewhere else. We work together in this, which is a massive blessing. Most people don't get to work together. We're going to have to come up with some new conversation. We are. I know. We have to be tomorrow maybe. Well, actually we did good though. We didn't go there. Well, I started to. You caught yourself. And I caught myself. I was really proud of you. I can't ask you this because it has to do with church. And then we just sat there while you were driving. It was awkward. It was weird. Because I was sleepy after eating.

7:31 And also I went off sugar today. We're going to have withdrawals for a little while. Yeah, I hit the sugar wall today. That's all that was. I wasn't checking out on you or anything. I literally felt like I was going to go to sleep while I was driving. That's not good. I know. I wouldn't, but I'm just saying I was really sluggish and sleepy. Well, we went to Walmart to get new SIM cards. Because we changed our phone numbers. Yeah, it's a big deal. It is. How many years have we had those? Ever since we moved to Nashville? 2012. The first time. Yes. So 2012. We've had the same phone numbers in Nashville. For 11 years. And you've said since we moved back to Texas, we should get a local phone number, you know, an 830 area code.

8:12 I feel like we're more permanent here. Oh, we are totally. And that, you know, it doesn't mean everybody has to do that for wherever they live. But I felt like as pastors, we needed to have a permanent 830 number, which is our area code here and not a 615. Plus, I was getting all these sales calls constantly from Nashville. Oh, me too. From Tennessee. Our political ads. So now is a good time. But we only gave our phone number to our family. Right. And did you give it to Pastor Eddie like you were supposed to? No, I did not. Okay, you better do that. I'll do that. Because if there was an emergency today. Oh, there's not an emergency. But you don't know. Anyway, I will get that number to Pastor Eddie. We don't have any contact with church. We love Pastor Eddie Freeman and his wife, Jessica.

8:53 You need to stop and do it right now. I'm not pausing the broadcast. I'm not pausing the podcast. I know, but I am. I'll do it this evening when we get done. Please do that. So anyway. You're disturbing Chevy with your tension. I know. But there's things that we had to do that had to get done today. Right. So really tomorrow, I think, actually starts our Sabbath. Or sabbatical. Because today is typically our Sabbath. Yeah. But there was things we had to do today that you can't do on a Sunday. True. And this is very much a reboot for us. I mean, what Sabbath is, you cease your work so you don't. When you work together, that's really hard because we constantly think about it. So we went out with our daughter, Faith, and her new husband, Brandon, had a wonderful time with them yesterday for lunch.

9:37 However, we had to lay down the ground rules. You cannot, when we get back together, you can't talk to us about church. Because Faith works at the church too. She's on staff. This is going to be a difficult task. She has all of our digital things, everything digital Faith does, all the graphics, all the video pieces, the video elements, websites, everything. All things digital. And she does a phenomenal job. However, she can't talk to us about it. It's going to be awkward because her life is immersed in ministry. Even our conversation always is around what's going on at the church. Hey, you need to tweak this on the website. Hey, we found a spelling error on the website. Yes. Hey, I mean, it's nuts.

10:17 It's always something. I need a slide. I need this. So it's going to be a challenge. Hey, I need a podcast. I need a cover art. And you said, no. And so I'm going to re- I'll morph one. You're going to do them yourself. I'll morph one. You're going to do them yourself. Anyway, so that's our life. We've been in this thing so long together. 28 years, you and I. 30 total, but 28 in ministry. Me, for me, it's 38 years. So I have to say something and be very clear about this. We're not taking a sabbatical. We're receiving a sabbatical. Right. It's a gift. It's a gift from God. It's a gift from our board of directors who are amazing. And it's a gift from our elders who are also amazing. And our church has been so supportive.

10:58 And our staff. They have so come around us. They're giddy almost. I can't brag enough. Which scares me. Why are they so giddy? Let me say their names. Wait, wait. Because I love everyone. Why are they giddy? Don't you find it odd that everybody's so excited that we're leaving? It is kind of when the cat's away, the mouse will play. Oh, you think that? I'm not worried about this team, but I have to tell you, I love Pastor Jeff. I am so blessed by him. He's our newest addition to the staff. Love Faith, of course. She's our daughter. We have to. And we love her because she's amazing at what she does. Yes, she is. She's gifted. Love Lori. Lori is a, she's a pillar. She is. She's like been here forever. And she's just one of those stable makes you able people. Stable, yes.

11:38 And then we have Pastor Russ Hearn who leads our worship team, all of our production, our online digital pieces. Which if something happened to him, we wouldn't have the church we have. That can never go away. We can't. We're in massive trouble. No. But thank you, Pastor Russ. And his wife, Wendy, also steps up to worship. Wonderful. Yes. And Pastor Brian and his wife, Leslie. Brian, Pastor Brian does youth. Leslie does children. But he's also our online pastor. And we are incredibly blessed and surrounded by a team that all week long, now they were coming to us writing the, okay, what about this? What about this? What about, I mean, it got a little bit, even on Sunday morning.

12:19 I thought, can we really do this? I know it was like, can we actually leave? Because they were hitting us with a thousand questions, but I'm glad they did. I'm glad they didn't just assume things. Don't forget Tommy. Oh, we love Tommy Watson and his wife, Patty. They're amazing. Which she's stepping in because Lori's going on vacation. That's right. Yeah, she's going to Alaska. Yes. Of all places. And so it's, well, her daughters live there. I know. Her daughters there. I know. But Patty is volunteering to step up. And of course we'll have to do something nice for her. So if it sounds like we're name dropping, we are. It's because we love these people. We do. And we want them to know how much we are honored to serve with them. Absolutely. We're a team, but more than that, we're a family.

13:00 So they've got it. So I had, there were several people who hit me up over the weekend. Hey, I need this from you. I need this. And I said, I've already turned over the reins. And you just gave it right to everybody else. Talked to Pastor Russ, talked to Pastor Jeff. And I have to tell you, I thought I'd be afraid of letting go of that, but actually it's the opposite. I was actually. Feel free? Oh, unbelievably free. So what are we going to do when we get back? I don't know. I think that they've got this. You know what I mean? They may not need us. Well, no, your job is a little different. Right. They need you. Well, you know, anyway, at the end of the day, this is such a God thing. Yes. And in 38 years, so I was really, so just so you know who you're listening, I was very resistant to this.

13:45 Exactly. It came up last year and it sounded like a good idea a year ago. I even planned many little, many vacations. Sounded great a year ago, right? So we had all these plans. You worked on plans. I worked on plans. Yeah, we're going to let's do this. And then what? How many weeks out about a month out? No, no, no, no, no. We finally, because we couldn't get anybody to commit to preach. It was not until March, Jimmy, because that was when. We sent out a request to our friends and they got busy and forgotten, didn't think about it again. And so we were like, we don't want anybody to cover. So in February or March, we're like, I guess we're not doing this. Yeah. So we, but we didn't really tell anybody that.

14:25 Remember? We didn't talk about it. No, it was just you and I. So the summer creeps up on us. My relational pastor from Gateway Church out of Southlake, Pastor Eddie, he's still assuming it's all going to happen. I'm kind of wondering if it's going to happen, thinking probably not. And then I remember thinking we can't do this. Our church is growing, which is a great blessing. We've got construction, middle of construction, got renovation going on. So it was like, this is the worst time to leave. And Pastor Eddie says, there's never a good time when it's like having a baby. There's never a good time to do it. So do it. And once I bought in, which is about what, two weeks ago, once I stepped over the line, I can't explain this.

15:07 I've shared this with several people, but it was like, if you take a slinky member, slinky, you take a slinky and you stretch it as far as it'll go. And then in one second you let go of it. And the force of that slinky coming all the way back, that's what I felt. It was like 38 years of ministry without a real clear break landed on my shoulders. And I woke up on Monday morning, this morning, and I told, I wrote a friend of mine, got some friends, select friends that I'm kind of communicating with. And I said, I feel like a truck ran over me.

15:49 I've been hit by a truck. I could barely get out of bed this morning, which is never happens to me. Well, I didn't for a while. I really needed to. And I get up and walk. You even said, do not set your alarm. No, I knew we needed. I knew we needed rest. I went outside, sat on the deck outside, looked up at the mountain. We have a mountain behind us with a big cross. It's not a mountain. It's a hill. In Texas, that's a mountain. So it's called the hill country. So it's a hill, but it's a big hill and it has a big cross on it that stays lit up. And so me and Chevy, we go outside and we set out and we just we watched the sun start to rise. The clouds were stunning.

16:29 And I just had one of those amazing mornings before the Lord. And I thought this is not just Sabbath. This is sabbatical. So for those of you don't understand, I mean, it's just one of those things that God gives as a gift to his children to say, I need you to come away with me. I need you to be quiet. I need you to be still. I need you to listen and not talk. And so I just spent the whole morning listening to the Lord. It was amazing. Wrote down a lot of stuff. I did some reading. I watched some videos from a guy named Pete Craig out of the UK who has a ministry called 24 seven. He just went on a on a pilgrim's journey from Iona, the island in Scotland, and this spiritual journey is similar to the Santiago Camino, you know, Camino de Santiago in Spain.

17:19 It's a spiritual journey. He just did a three week journey. He documented the whole thing, videoed it. And so he does these little video things. So I spent time with that. It's been amazing. Great morning, great day. And then you and I jumped in the car. And it's just been a lovely to use our friend Tina Curry's word. I'm stealing it. A lovely day. It was very. I'm so happy. I'm encouraged. I'm excited. And I actually woke up a little bit early because I was excited. Well, you know, sabbatical. Well, you you slept in a little bit, but then you little bit were excited about. I didn't have an alarm, but I still my body clock. I needed to rest.

17:59 My body is tired. Yeah, so does Chevy. Obviously, he's completely out in your lap right now. He's he's gone. So anyway, it's been great. So we start this and this was day one. And man, I'm just I think it's not going to get real till about day three or four. Probably when we start going, well, it's going to be in the second week. Oh, really? I think maybe. Well, we have family coming in tomorrow. Oh, we do. We do. Our son, Chris, he's a pastor in Houston. And he is on a sabbatical. He's a phenomenal pastor. He and our grandson are coming in. So it's going to feel just like we have family in town for a few days. Sweet. And then next week we'll be by ourselves.

18:39 Yeah. And I think it's going to hit us then. Well, I think today there were moments where I went, it's really quiet. I'm used to being on social media. We were in the car. I'm doing a I wouldn't call it digital detox, but a social media detox is really more accurate because I'm still going to do some things with digital. I have to. I'm doing part of it and this is part of it. But yeah, it's a moment where I thought this feels kind of weird, but it feels good. It feels really good. I'm already, even though we had things to do today, just to kind of lean in and we went shopping for our keto journey. There's a lot to do with that. But I'm still already in a place of peace.

19:19 Pastor Eddie said, you're going to be miserable for two weeks. Wow. You know what? I don't like that. I don't believe that. I'm not miserable. I'm just being encouraged and excited. We love our church. Of course I want to know what's going on, but I'm letting it go. I'm letting it go. Taking my hands off the wheel. So I've passed all that on to a competent team. So that's our journey so far. Now we got a wonderful, I've got to pull this up. Yeah, you do. I want to read this because it was such a blessing to hear from Megan. Got some great, got some great reviews on the website. Anyway, folks, if you, it would really encourage us and we love the interaction.

20:00 So go to livingupinadownworld.com. You can leave a review, you can leave comments on the blogs that I post. You can email us and contact us through that. I always love to get back with folks. And so I've got to read a couple because I mean just wonderful, wonderful, encouraging words. So here's one right here. Man, this is powerful. This is huge stuff. Let me read Paul Lopez review. He left a review. He goes to our church. Amazing family. He and Anita are precious. He says, I've been binge listening to the podcast over the last few days. Wow. I've laughed. I've teared up and I've been ministered to.

20:41 Thank you, Jimmy Annette and Chevy. We've got to give Mr. Chevy credit for what God has called you to do both as pastors and podcasters. Paul, thank you so much for leaving that review. Beautiful. So sweet. That just means a ton to us. And we're going to post that on our website, by the way. So you'll see that. And we've got a lot of new people who've subscribed to our mailing list. So I've got to add another one today, which is really exciting. And so if you are listening, maybe for the first or second or third time, and you're like, yeah, I want to get on that. And what I do is I put out a newsletter about a day before the podcast, just as a reminder to listen and be looking for us. And I put some things in there, pictures, highlights, just various things. So anyway, I'd love to have you join that.

21:23 So you can sign up for that on our website and just let me know. Also, this is from Megan. And this is beautiful. Well, we've asked people to write in and let us know if there's a topic that is something that they would like for us to discuss. And Megan wrote us just what this is last week. Oh, I missed one. I missed another review. So let me read that first. We'll go to Megan's. OK. Megan's request, because it's beautiful. And this is amazing. It's from Jesse. And she says this. I love the interaction. She titled it great people with a great message. Oh, sweet. I know you're awesome, Jesse.

22:04 Thank you for listening and being a part of our family. She says, I love the interaction between two people that love each other and God. And that is the truth. She nailed it. I mean, we are 30 years of while we've been married and I am more in love with this girl. And I call her a girl out of respect because I still see you as that girl that I met. And I went hubba hubba. Oh my God. OK. At the gym when I saw you. Let's read the. Anyway, moving right along. It's a great way. She says this. Thank you, Jesse. It's a great way to hear about life as a Christian from real people. They may not be perfect people. Wait a minute. No, I'm kidding. Yeah, right. They may not be perfect people, but they're still amazing.

22:47 Thank you, Jesse. Beautiful, beautiful review. We really appreciate a five star review and just appreciate your heart and sharing your heart with us. And I have to tell you, in terms of being real, that's our heart. And I've always said from the beginning, we'll never hide our scars. No secrets, no leverage. That's right. So thank you so much. I want to read Megan's great input here. Such a good question. I love this. So she says, Hi, I would love to hear y'all's thoughts. You think she's from Texas? From the South? I'd love to hear y'all's thoughts on working through strained family relationships as a Christian.

23:27 That's a tough one. Booyah. Yeah, that's that's heavy. I mean, I feel the weight in my heart. It's hard. And she says, I know God's path is for us to forgive. But when relationships are not able to happen because of brokenness, how do we navigate this whole following God's path? And she says this, I love this podcast. I got caught up in less than two weeks. I can't even imagine. Megan, Megan, you're a podcast rock star right there. Wow. Listen to us and Mr. Chevy wallowing around on mom's lap. My parents know she says thanks for always being so real. Wow.

24:08 And that's our heart. We want to make faith real for the rest of us. Making faith real for real people because we're real people. So how are you going to answer that question? I was going to ask you that very same question. No, I'm asking you. Wow. OK, let's just talk about this. We did. She says, I want to hear your thoughts about working through strained family relationships as a Christian. That's probably one of the number one questions we get asked probably over the last 30 years of working in ministry. Almost on a weekly basis because we do an altar call at the end. It's not just the old school altar call. It's like if you need prayer for any reason, we're here for you. Just come. We have all of our elders at the front, our staff. We're at the front.

24:48 Without fail, most or many weeks, I'll just say many weeks, people come and they ask the same question. What is some kind of strained relationship, whether it's friendship or family? More often than not in family, but it's both, no doubt. In fact, isn't it interesting that the very thing that God created us for from the beginning was to have a relationship with Him? And doesn't it make sense that that is what is always under attack? The enemy is always seeking to bring a breach between you and other people that you care about and love and people that we think would never turn their backs on us. They do. It always hurts from people that we're the closest to.

25:29 And Megan, wonderful question. You're actually asking a question that a lot of people have asked. Recently, we were listening to... Oh, you okay, baby? Sorry, I've got something in my throat. You got a tickle in your throat? I do. Do you need something to drink? Yes, I'm going to go get something while you work. Oh, you're just going to leave me here? I have to. I'm by myself. I can say anything I want right now. Anyway, so Megan, recently Annette and I, we love... there's pastors that we love to listen to. Glad to recommend those. You know, they're not for everybody. You've got to find who speaks into your life, speaks into your heart.

26:10 Annette is hacking up a lung in the other room. I hope she's okay. She's good. Okay, here she comes. But we're glad to recommend maybe ministers, pastors, people who speak life and truth. And one that's ministered us through the years, over the years, is Pastor Bill Johnson out of Bethel Church in Reading, California. We've been out there a couple of times. We've had friends on staff there. But he said something in a message. He lost his wife about a year ago. And that got my attention. I've always enjoyed him. I always love listening to him. But there's something about listening to someone who's navigating pain. And I'm always curious to see how they navigate pain.

26:52 And he shared a lot. So he got up actually the Sunday after his wife passed. And they've been married decades. And after she passed, he got up. He's 72 years old, so they've been together a long time. And he shared his heart. And I watched him navigate pain. But he said something in the context of that sermon that Annette, in fact Annette said, pause, pause. We need to write that down. And it was this. He said this, I have given up my right to be offended. That's pretty powerful. Let the gravity of that sink in for just a minute. I have given up my right to be offended.

27:34 At this point, he was talking about God. God because of his wife passing and his whole ministry is surrounded by healing and believing in the healing miracles of God. Miraculous. And his dad passed away. Yeah, from cancer. Many years ago. And now his wife from an illness. And so it was very, for him to say that. It's powerful. And this was just a few days after her funeral. And boy, talk about an amazing. I might have cried during that sermon. Oh, you cried through the whole thing. I know. Last week's podcast was titled, Big Boys Don't Cry. You were crying. But this one does. That was pretty powerful.

28:14 Hit me so hard. Giving up your right to be offended. And I've heard this before. I remember Michael W. Smith. Many of you all may know who Michael W. Smith is. He's one of the most prolific songwriters in Nashville. He interviewed us for a job. He did, yeah. We had a great conversation with Michael. That was an interesting interview by the way. Great guy. Great guy. We loved our time with him. Very nice guy. He ended up calling his son-in-law to be the pastor of the church. He's the pastor of the center of us. We get it. It's family. But anyway, he was gracious and we had a wonderful visit with Michael. But I remember seeing Michael in a movie, a documentary, where he was sitting on the front porch. He's got a little cabin out on his land there in Franklin, Tennessee.

28:54 And he said, I have endeavored that I will never be offended again for the rest of my life. I remember hearing that. That was like thunder in my soul. And then I heard Bill say it. So that's two people. Yeah, I hear Pastor Bill Johnson say it recently. But I love the way he said it. He said, I give up my right to be offended. From a world's perspective and from all the friends that we run with, they'll say, hey, you should be mad about that. You should be upset. You should be offended about that. But when you've given up your right to be offended because you're so submitted to the Lordship of Christ, that's powerful.

29:38 It really is. How did that hit you when he said it? It really did hit me hard because I thought, have I ever even thought about that? Because so many times we get offended by people who say negative things about us or to us or whatever. And we immediately, I mean, our first reaction is, oh my gosh, why do they say something like that? And we take on that offense. And when he said that, it was like, wow. Why are we even allowing offense to take root in our heart? That is profound. And I'm thinking in terms of what Megan talked about in terms of family.

30:21 And that's harder. That can be even harder because they're close and in a good way and sometimes a hard way, you're stuck with family. Blood is blood, right? Or marriage and the bonds of matrimony bring families together and not always the best situations, obviously. And so there are times when there's massive disruption. I always and I truly believe this, that the enemy is to blame. Right. And he's seeking to destroy the family. Look what he's doing in the world in this culture. In John chapter 10, remember that verse, John 10, 10 says the thief comes only except to steal, kill and destroy.

31:03 Jesus flips the script and says, but I came that you might have life and have it more abundantly. The enemy is there to destroy and what he's looking to destroy is not looking to take away your money, take away your security. That's all very ancillary in life. That's just extra stuff. Those are the accoutrements of life. He's here to destroy relationships. And your peace. Well, through that. Through that, yes. But the primary target is relationships. Exactly. Because that was why we were created. We were created to be in relationship with the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit and the heavenly host. And then we're created to be in relationship with one another.

31:43 So that is the biggest breach there can possibly be. Cain and Abel. Right. Think about it. Exactly. One brother killing another brother. Yes. I mean, it started. And so every, I mean, it's been from the beginning, the breach in relationship. But someone has to stand up and say, I'm not going to allow this offense to continue to take root. I'm going to live how Jesus wants me to. And then when that offense, when it comes into your mind, you just have to get it out of your mind. You have to think of other things. And you have to think. For me, I always think about the brokenness of the other person.

32:28 That the reason why there's an offense on their part that cannot get ratified is because they're broken. There's some brokenness. There's something that they don't. No doubt. That they can't. Sometimes you can't even explain what it is. It could be something from your childhood. It can be something from something that happened years ago. But you've got to be able to look at that person and say, I'm not going to be upset at that person because it's deeper than that. There's something else there. Nailed it. You know what I'm saying? Absolutely, Annette. I love this idea of seeing people in 3D.

33:10 And what it means is by looking at them from every angle, you know, when you just look at somebody who's standing in front of you upset, or they've written you an email or a horrible text or whatever, that's not seeing them in 3D. That's just seeing them in one dimensionally. You're just seeing what's there in front of you. But when you begin to look in 3D, the idea there is that you step around to the side and you see what's going on. You step around from behind and realize there's a past here. There's a history here. And a lot of times, as a pastor, I take a lot of shots and hits because when you're a public figure, you get a target on your back. Exactly.

33:50 And also when you're preaching the truth and the gospel, you're targeted. So I've had to learn how to navigate pain. I've had to learn how to navigate people coming against me, lying. But it still hurts. Oh, it hurts deeply because I'm a heart leader. That's what's so hard is we hurt so much. We do. It's brutal. And there's things that happen to us when we take a hit like that. We want to validate ourselves. If we're not careful in our immaturity, we'll run around and gather a bunch of people who love us to make us feel good. Pat me on the back. Tell me I'm okay. That's not the answer. That's a low level. And not that we don't need people telling us we're good, but that is a low level of maturity.

34:31 The more mature you get, the more you're able to begin to have thick skin and shake things off and say, you know what? I'm not going to allow this offense to penetrate me. I'm going to become impermeable because I died. My life is now hidden in Christ, Colossians chapter 3. I am hidden. And then in Galatians 2.20, I know I've been crucified with Christ. I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. And the word in means through. I know exactly what you're saying. In the life I now live, I live by faith in the Son of God who loved me and gave himself for me.

35:11 It's Galatians 2.20. And so Colossians 3, those first three verses, Galatians 2.20, our life is hidden in Christ. And it's almost as though, I love the way Pastor Bill said it, I give up my right. In a very real sense, if we've died and we've been crucified, we have no rights. A dead man doesn't have rights. A dead woman doesn't have rights. That doesn't mean you're not real, that you're not human because we do. Pain hurts. In some days, putting it in real language, it sucks to be you. It's just hard, especially when it's people close to you or family.

35:51 However, there is something powerful about an individual who knows who they are in Christ. Because when you know who you are, you know what to do. Exactly. I talked about Stephen. Man, Stephen was a young man in Christ. He came along with that first wave in the early chapters of the Book of Acts when the Holy Spirit was poured out in the church. As we know, it was birthed. Powerful story of Stephen. Stephen was hauled in for preaching the gospel. He was called a blasphemer. In fact, this group of religious leaders of the Hebrew people actually paid people to lie and bear false witness against him in a court before a group called the Sanhedrin.

36:36 This is still happening today. Oh, this stuff happens all the time. It happens in families. They may not be paying somebody, but they gather people to support the lie or validate a lie or an untruth or a half-truth, which is a lie. That's what happened to Stephen. It says that as he was before them and they were accusing him, the Bible literally says in Acts chapter 6 that as they looked upon Stephen, he had the face of an angel. That was really an interesting passage. It's powerful and yet it spoke loudly to me. It did some exegesis. There were many interpretations of that. What does that mean? Exactly.

37:16 You felt like he was confident in who he was. Christ-confident, identity-confident. I know who I am. I know what I'm called to do. You may be railing against me, falsely accusing me, but I know who I am. Because I know who I am, I know what to do. Exactly. I want to encourage Megan and anybody else listening to this. Listen, you can't fix the people in your family. You can't. When you try, that's called codependence. But you can pray for the people in your family. You've got the weapon of warfare. You pray that God will penetrate their heart, help them see the truth of a situation, whatever it is, because we don't know what it is, and be able to walk in forgiveness once and for all.

38:01 Because once we walk into forgiveness, that bondage is broken, that stronghold is broken. Forgiveness becomes a cage and a jail and a prison of our own making. And then you, and I love this, you go from... Contempt? Contempt. To compassion. To compassion. Oh my gosh. When I got to that point with my father, it changed our relationship. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. And because I had so much contempt for him for so long. And then God just, I don't know what happened. I just got a revelation that something had to have happened to him when he was young that caused him to be the father, not a great father, not a great role model for me.

38:50 But now, looking back, I'm like, oh, I wish I could have at least talked to him to find out when I was younger more about his relationship with his own family and friends when he was growing up. Yeah. I don't know. You began to see him in 3D. I did. I saw him in 3D. I remember when that happened. It was powerful. Oh my goodness. Yes. By the way, you're beautiful. Oh, you're so sweet. When you go spiritual, I'm just like, man, Katie, bar the door. I'm just trying to live up to you, honey. I love you so much. Beautiful. And you're right. We move from contempt to compassion. Compassion.

39:30 And we have to forgive even when people don't accept it. And you still have to forgive on your part. It's like, God, I love what Jesus said at the cross when he was being beaten and flogged. I can't even imagine. Stephen said it too. And Stephen said it too. Stephen, as they were stoning him, and I say stoning, you may not understand what that is as an American, but it was brutal. They would take up rocks and they would get in a circle around an individual and they would literally pound them to death. Yes. And as that was happening, the Bible says he dropped to his knees. He said, forgive them.

40:10 Yes, they don't know. Forgive them. They don't know what they're doing. I mean, what? Jesus did the same thing. And we're supposed to be like Jesus. That is hard. That is really hard. But we've got to get to the point where we're maturing enough in our faith that we have that kind of response. And, you know, a lot of us aren't there yet. And it's hard. So think about what Pastor Bill Johnson said. He said, I give up my right. In other words, he surrendered it. That's how we do it. We surrender our right to be angry. We surrender our right to be offended. Exactly. And, Megan, if you're hearing this, no, we're not perfect. Oh, my gosh.

40:50 We're still learning and growing in this ourselves. No doubt. I think we will always be having to navigate these kinds of things. Well, if we ever get to the point where we say we know everything. Not going to happen. Not on this side. Not on this side. Because something took over and it wasn't godly. Because that's a hard one. It is very hard. It took me decades to get to the point to where I could literally forgive my father and walk in, walk out that forgiveness and not just let it fester and hold on to myself. So giving up our right. And, you know, forgiveness, Megan, I know you know this. I would say this to anybody.

41:31 We know these things. But forgiveness is not a feeling. Right. It's not an emotion. And it doesn't condone what someone did. Exactly. It's a choice. We make a choice that I'm going to forgive them. Now, that may not mean that I let them back into my orbit. Exactly. Because we have to put up a moat, a boundary around ourselves. Exactly. To say, you know what? What they did, it's just I won't say it's unforgivable. It's just I can't let them back into that space and into I can't be that vulnerable. So that's not wrong. That's a healthy thing. It's a good thing. Henry Cloud Boundaries, one of the best books ever written, talks about that is that you do you forgive, you let go, you release.

42:13 Or as Pastor Bill says, you surrender your right to hold on to that. And yet, not but, yet, you still have to build boundaries around you. And just another thing, just a thought, love is so powerful. Love goes beyond the hurt, goes beyond the wounds, goes beyond the hits. And it sees past it so that you can see the wounded person they are, the wounded child that they are. Because it was probably something. I've learned this as a pastor through 38 years, nearly four decades of doing this, that 99 out of 100 times when I've taken a hit from another individual, it wasn't about me.

43:02 That's right. It was on my watch. I might have been a trigger, but it wasn't about me. And I've learned not to take these things personally. Now, let me back up. I'm learning. There you go. And I think this, if I ever get to the point where it doesn't hurt me or bother me, I need to quit the ministry. Exactly. I need to go do something else because I need my heart to be open. And it's okay that it's got a lot of scars and cuts and bruises because it's worth it to love people deeply. Jesus, I love the scripture, it says that Jesus didn't give himself to man because he knew what was in man.

43:44 And yet he was one of the greatest lovers of all time. Yet he didn't give himself. There's a tension or a balance in that where we love people deeply, but we also have boundaries and we understand the rules of the game, so to speak. Exactly. And so, Megan, our heart goes out to you because anytime we hear about family relationships and strained family relationships, and here we are followers of Jesus, what's really harder for me sometimes, honestly, I'm a follower of Jesus who loves God with all my heart, but there may be another person on the other side of the fence who's a follower of Jesus, loves the Lord with all their heart, and yet we don't seem to be able to connect, reconcile, or work it out.

44:28 That's hard. It is hard. I think that will be a mystery that goes in the mystery box of why two followers of Jesus who love him intently can't seem to work through the brokenness and the strain. That'll be in the mystery box. There's always mystery. Always. If you can't embrace mystery, you're going to have a hard time as a follower of Jesus. That is true. Any closing words on that? No, I just… My heart goes out to Megan and anyone else who's suffering from these kinds of things. Because she's not the first one who's brought that up. No, not at all. Not at all. And we've touched on this a little bit in the past, but it's really fresh for her, and I felt like it was time for us to bring it up.

45:11 Yeah, I agree. I agree. It's heavy. It's a heavy weight to bear. But God, Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall, right? Humpty Dumpty… You're not going to hear that for eight weeks. Had a great fall, all the king's horses, all the king's men couldn't put Humpty together again, but God can. God can and God does. So Megan, our heart goes out to you. We're going to breathe a prayer for you. And anyone else who's listening today says, oh gosh, if Megan only knew what I was going through. I mean, just a lot of people are hurting in that arena, and so our hearts go out. And we get it. We understand. We do. We really do.

45:51 And God wants to heal those wounded hearts. That's why He died for us, is to heal those wounded hearts. Yeah. So Megan, He hears your cries. He hears all of your pain. He knows all your pain. Absolutely. He sees it. Absolutely. And He's there. Just turn to Him. Every time you feel something, just turn to Him and say, here I go again. Here I am again. I'm back. It's okay. He's a good God. He really is a good God. He really is. Can I pray for Megan? Yeah, let's do that. Let's just take a moment and do that. And those of you that are listening, even though you're going to be listening, not in real time, and I think prayers are retroactive.

46:32 It doesn't matter. It's the heart. So join us in praying for Megan and others who are listening to the broadcast who are hurting and struggling with these strained relationships. So I'll keep it short. We bring Megan and others before you who are suffering through strained family relationships. They're painful and they don't always have a clear resolution. We always don't get the apology we wanted or the reconciliation that we feel like would be right. We don't always get it. We don't always get the answers of even why it happened. And so Lord, we lean into trust. We lean into open in our hearts and like Pastor Bill, such a profound word.

47:16 I give up my right to be offended. Lord, may we step into that posture in that place. And so for Megan and others who are listening right now, wherever they are and whenever they listen to this, whether it's tomorrow or 15 weeks from now or a year from now, if they hear this, they can join in this prayer for themselves that your grace is enough. It's sufficient and that your love, father, we are all of us called, loved and kept by you in Jesus name. Amen. Amen. We love you Megan. God bless you. Meg, I want to share some things with some great.

47:58 We had a great week by the way on, on fountain and boostograms and encouragement and notes. So I want to share some of these. I'm just going to start from the top, uh, sending in Satoshi's, which by the way, if you listen on any of the podcast platforms that are podcasting 2.0, like castamatic and fountain, you can actually earn Satoshi's while you're listening and you can bless those forward and value for value is what we call that. So appreciate Adam Curry and Tina for teaching us about the power of value for value. By the way, we've not talked about Adam and Tina. We need to talk about their amazing podcast, which used to be bi-weekly. They did weekly.

48:38 Now they do it every week. Martha came, she texted me yesterday or the day before and said, Oh my gosh, I've listening to curry and the keeper and I can't quit laughing. Oh, beautiful. Good. Cause you're probably crying with ours. You're laughing with her. No, I'm just kidding. Um, and I sent that text to, to, uh, Adam and Tina and they were just very blessed to know that, that, uh, someone else is listening. Beautiful. So curry and the keepers would love for you to check these guys out. Adam also has a great podcast where they do media deconstruction and kind of what's current, what's happening in real time called no agenda. So you can check that out. He and John Dvorak do an amazing job pulling things apart, getting to the truth.

49:22 They're not bashing people. They're dealing with systems that are broken. And so that's another very educational media is definitely, oh my gosh, media, culture, government. Don't get me started all broken. And that's why we're living up in a down world. We are choosing to live up in that. So some boostograms. Let me share you some, share with some good things are going on. So sharing sats with us. Satoshi's is a sir by his grace. Love this guy. Is that Brian? No, no, no Brian with an eye. Yes. Okay. I was being quiet on our Satoshi deal. Yeah. Better check on him. I know.

50:03 Nice. I love Brian. And I, Brian and I hadn't heard from you recently. Sir, by his grace. Listen to he says, let's go, bro. I love my kind of guy. He says this quote, I am the Lord. I've spoken. It shall come to pass. I will do it. I will not go back. I will not spare. I will not relent according to your ways and your deeds. You will be judged. There's a Lord Ezekiel two for some heavy duty. That's intense. And then he says blessed by the Pruitts. That is so cool. Thanks sir. By his grace. We love you, man. Absurdian. I love this girl. She's very artsy, very, very into digital art, has some incredible work that she does.

50:43 And she just wrote such a sweet time. Such a sweet thing. She sent 40,000 sats to us. That's beautiful. Thank you so much. And she said, worthy title episode and true. I'm a big boys. Don't cry. But that's what he does. Yeah, you do. So thank you. Thank you so much for blessing us with that and just showing the value for what we're doing. I love this name. This is one of my favorite names. I love sushi. Oh, by the way, I do too. I love sushi. And they say this, your weekly episodes always encourage and uplift me and get Mondays off to the on the right foot. Thank you for your faithfulness and thank you. Sent 10,000 sats. Isn't that beautiful? Thank you.

51:23 I love sushi. I love your name. That's amazing. And I do love sushi too. And RG BTC just wrote boost with a ton of zeros, ton of O's, a hundred sats. Thank you for that. In fact, several actually, another one and said, God bless you and Bridge Church. Do you mean that? Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Surbise grace again. Just keeps getting better. Loved how biblical show 23 was. This is going back. We're on show 25, by the way. I didn't even say what episode we're on. And here we are. Adam Curry, man, dude, you're such a blessing. We're going back here to our dashboard, but such a blessing how you just continue to send your love and send your encouragement.

52:08 And we are thankful. I'm going to pull up the fountain app because I love the fountain app. You can comment. They're called Booster grams. Not only do you show value, but you actually write a comment of encouragement. And we got several in here and just want to share a couple of them. I won't go too deep with this, but it's just beautiful when people share with us. Adam Curry, 77,777. There's seven numbers. I love that. Man, I did not upload. He sent me a great file for a striper boost and I didn't get a chance to upload it because I've been so busy. Well, you're getting a new I know I'm getting it. Oh, I'm so excited. I'm nerding out. So we're going to have a lot of I'm getting a road caster.

52:48 We're going to have a lot of so pump sound effects. Yeah. He's going to send me all kinds of stuff. I'm curious as to how you're going to use those. Anyway, he wrote this striper jingle incoming. He sent it to me. My bad. So I have to say to hell with the devil. Remember that song by striper? Oh my God. There's a whole album to hell with the devil. What eighties nineties. I'm thinking nineties, but anyway, looking forward to our next bro date. Me too. Adam Curry, dude, it's on. We've gone back to keto, so I'm feeling the needs for some serious beef. His daughter's here for a couple of weeks. Yeah. Her boyfriend, they came over from Rotterdam in the Netherlands and hanging out and get some sun in Texas and having a good time.

53:31 So anyway, I love Adam Curry and so thankful. And again, there's these others already shared these so much love. So you and Tina still walking the hills. Yeah, we're going back tomorrow. No way. I had to take a break today because I've had some back issues and, uh, but I'm ready to go tomorrow. Guys are going to find it out. I know it's, I know you all have a great time catching up as well. So Hey family, we love all of you guys. You are such a blessing to us. We love doing this and we will be doing this all throughout our sabbatical. We don't consider this work. We consider this love. And so thank you for listening. Share with your friends. Let people know going social.

54:11 Hey, check out living up in a down world. These guys are nuts and Chevy's crazy. We're nuts. We kind of are. Hey, we love you guys. Have a great week. We'll talk to you next week. Bye.