“Red, White & Righteous? Krish Dhanam on Patriotism & the Gospel!”

WEBVTT

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All right, five, four, three, two, one. All right.

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So, all right. Well, we're live now -ish, live

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-ish. So I'm so glad you could make it out today.

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I know you're busy. Your life's moving in a thousand

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directions. We're leaving tomorrow for Austin.

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I'm going to be praying for the open the Senate

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floor prayer on Thursday, but we're going to

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go down tomorrow and get settled in there. It's

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kind of an interesting thing. You know, you go

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up to that massive campus, the Capitol at Austin.

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It's so intimidating just walking in the place.

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And it's like catacombs in there. I've done this

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my third time, and I'm still thinking, which

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door do I need to go into? I can never remember.

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I usually end up on the wrong end of the building.

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But so so I had a tight week, too, but I was

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so glad I could get you in. So thank you. I'm

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glad it worked out. Really glad you're here.

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And I'm looking forward to just hearing some

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of your story. And we'll do that in just a minute.

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I do want to take a moment to pray and welcome.

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Welcome our folks that are joining us today,

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either by audio or by video. Thanks for this

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is living up in a down world. We're thrilled

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that you're here. So let's bow our head for word

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of prayer. Father, thank you for. the privilege

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and the joy of getting to do what we do. Everything

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we do is such a privilege from you that we get

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to do it. We live in awe and wonder of who you

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are. And Lord, as we visit today, as we have

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a conversation today about God, the world, and

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other things, Lord, whatever you want to be said,

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we... We lean into that and rest into that. I

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pray for anyone who's watching today that they

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would find themselves lifted and encouraged by

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what they're hearing here today and that maybe

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they will be both encouraged and inspired on

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their journey of faith as well. And so we consecrate

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this to you and give it to you in Jesus' name.

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Amen. This is Pastor Jimmy Pruitt. I want to

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welcome you today to Living Up in a Down World,

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and I have a very special guest that I'm so excited

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about, Krish Dunham. Did I say that right? Perfect.

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Really? Okay, I'm shocked. But I want to welcome

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you to today's podcast, and thank you for being

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here and making time to be here. My joy. Thanks

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for having me. I know you've had a busy morning

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already. You've been teaching classes out at

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the Patriot Academy, and I want to get a little

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more into the Patriot Academy and how you ended

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up there. But I want to go back a little bit.

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I want to get back into your story because I

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was talking to Pastor Russ, and he said, you've

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got to get him to tell his testimony. So awesome.

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And your connection to Zig Ziglar, who has always

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been a hero from a distance for me. I never got

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to meet him, but I've learned so much just through

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his books. at the top right there was that was

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the one that i read that in college back in the

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day so tell me a little bit about just give us

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a little bit of your background your journey

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yeah to kind of summate it in a reader's digest

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version like the old people would say i was born

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and raised in india was raised in an orthodox

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brahmin family when i say orthodox people kind

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of wonder but my father's uncle's names are actually

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engraved on the temple stones in india so i came

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from piety and grew up in that tradition. Dad

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was a little more liberated from the standpoint

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that my father worked for an American company

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in India, and we would meet a lot of the expat

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kids while I was growing up. And so like most

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people in India and most people where I grew

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up, America was going to be the destination since

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I was about seven. So the dreams of getting here

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eventually went and did my business school in

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India, but met a young girl there who is the

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opposite of every immigrant story. Her parents

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were students at Michigan State when she was

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born here, but she was raised in India. Her father

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came back to India and never wanted to stay.

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And so when I told my bride that I wanted to

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come here, she became an American citizen in

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India and came over in 84, brought me over in

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86. So that's the background story and my upbringing

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in a different worldview. And like most young

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immigrants who came here who went to college,

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I didn't have that luxury. I ended up going to

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work. And the only job you can get in those days

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is sales. And so somehow I found my way. I won

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a couple of sales contests and ended up at a

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Zig Ziglar seminar. So that's the genesis. Zig

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Ziglar. There it is. So when I heard Mr. Ziglar

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speak in 1991 at the Irving Calvary Temple in

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Dallas on January 26th, my world changed. I suddenly

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realized there was possibility. He told me that

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I was not the little immigrant kid from a small

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town who would struggle all of his life, that

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I had the potential of God within me. I didn't

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know what that meant. Many years later, he was

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the one who led me to Christ. But I went to work

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for him in 1991. And in 1992, I caught his eye.

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And he said he wanted me to be beside him. And

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that was the thing. I was his man Friday. I was

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his male nurse. I was his director of international

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ops. I co -wrote a book with him, traveled all

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over the world with him. And he became my spiritual

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father very young in a different country and

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pretty much raised me at a time when the father's

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influence was important. So that's the journey

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that took me from India. There's a lot of depth

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in that. I wrote about it in a book. But the

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reality is... He was just a remarkable human

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being, and I had the privilege of just a sidebar.

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I took his shoes to be shined in Iowa when nobody

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knew who I was. I was the only one he allowed

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to take to the bathroom when he had Alzheimer's

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and forgot who he was. We had that relationship.

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Wow. Tell me, what was it about his character

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that riveted you, that drew you in? I want to

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spend time with that man. I want to know that

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man. Yeah, when I first heard him speak, like

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I said, in that January of 1991, he said some

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things and I filled eight pages of notes. But

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his colloquialisms were simple, very one -liners

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of great positivity. I somehow realized that

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at the end of that three -hour seminar, I had

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learned more in that three hours than all my

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college degrees, particularly when I got a master's.

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And like a typical Indian, I was educated. But

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his common sense wisdom was something that I

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was lacking in what I was raised with. To make

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it sound probably more eloquent now because I've

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been a speaker for 30 years, I was raised to

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compete. Mr. Ziegler taught me to complete. Love

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that. Love that. I love his colloquialisms. I

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love those short, easy to remember, just bites.

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Always ask the question, you probably have too,

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how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

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And I used to, when I was in college, I would

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struggle with learning large pieces of content.

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But I learned to break them down into small bite

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-sized nuggets. Took that into ministry with

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me. I'm that way today. Everybody jokes about

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the Pastor Jay -isms. Right. Clarify your why.

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You know, you leak out what you're full of. You

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become what you behold. I mean, I've got a million

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of these. But Zig Ziglar kind of helped me with

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that because I learned the power of a nugget.

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A truth. you could hold and remember. Yeah, and

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one of the things that he said in the very early

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days that captivated me was, he says, you treat

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your wife like a thoroughbred, you won't end

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up with an egg. And in modern contextualization,

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it sounds like a sexist thing to say, but there's

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so much depth in it. And he would have all these

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things that were kind of quasi -edgy, but he

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also introduced me to the late, great Adrian

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Rogers, who also was a thing. And so I use Adrian

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Rogers' line now when I speak and say these edgy

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things. I said, but I'm man enough. And if you've

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been offended by what I say, I'm going to stand

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right here so you can come apologize. I love

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Adrian Rogers. My heritage, my Christian heritage

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was Southern Baptist. And so I went to Southwestern

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Seminary. And so he was kind of an icon in that

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world and such. Such an eloquent voice for the

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gospel. So this was, I mean, you know, so like

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you said, even though I was not a Christian,

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all my early influence about people who were

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positive happened to come from the Baptist background

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because of Mr. Ziegler's own Baptist heritage.

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And then in 1993, something radical happened

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because I was following him. I was traveling

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with him. My wife, who was raised Christian,

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we had our boy. We're going to have our boy.

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And she says, I'm going to raise him in the faith.

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I didn't know what that meant. I said, more power

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to you. She said, we're going to get him baptized

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and my parents are going to come from India.

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So I said, it's a big deal. She says, yeah, it's

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a big deal. So I said, can I invite anybody?

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The only Christian I knew was important was Mr.

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Ziegler. And for me, it was almost self -serving

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that. Yeah, she'd have her family, but I'd have

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a celebrity. And when I asked Mr. Ziegler a very

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simple question, will you come to my son's baptism?

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He asked me a question nobody had ever asked.

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He said, why do you want to send your son to

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someplace you're not sure you're going? Wow.

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And when I held my boy a little later in the

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hospital because we were preparing for the baptism

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before. I did not want to be separated from that

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feeling. And I told my mother -in -law who had

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prayed for me for seven years that when we baptized

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Nick, I'd like to be baptized too. So I had the

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privilege of being baptized with my son and Mr.

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Ziegler was in attendance. Oh, that is beautiful.

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Beautiful. I was going to ask how you came to

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know Christ and how that rolled out. And you

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know, it's amazing how God will put spiritual

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markers. In our lives, you know, and there'll

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be a handful of people that you can point back

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to and say, that one sowed this kind of seed,

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or this one said something that made me think

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this way and took me in a different trajectory.

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And so how old were you when you finally? So

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this would have been circa 1930. This would have

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been 1993. So I was 31. 31. And so he, you know,

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he had that, that kind of very simple challenge

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as he. Another thing I was teaching this morning,

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one thing he taught me was, I said, will you

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be my mentor? Because I was fascinated by him.

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And many people asked him to be. So he says,

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you need to make a commitment to two things.

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And you need to sign this blank sheet of paper.

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And it was fascinating. Nobody had ever talked

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to me like that. But it was very simple and very

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practical. So I signed the blank sheet of paper.

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And on it, he wrote, today, I, Krish Dhanam,

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commit to being a 10 -year overnight success.

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Wow. He said, son, I'll be your mentor if you

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let me teach you the long game. And second, if

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you allow me permission to challenge every assumption

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you've ever held. Wow. Those two things changed

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my worldview, changed my trajectory. That introduction

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to faith allowed me to start a ministry and now

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share the gospel in 80 countries. Beautiful,

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brother. I love it. It makes my heart leap. I

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love that you. you were willing to ask him to

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be your mentor. And I have done that many times

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through the years. I learned the hard way back

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when I was playing tennis in high school. I thought

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if I can challenge people. to play me that are

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better than me, it's going to elevate my game,

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even though I'm going to get snot beat out of

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me every time, you know, if I can get over that,

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if I can get over losing someday, I'll win. And

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that's what I did. And I started as a young man

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and through the years, especially when I stepped

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into faith, I didn't become a Christian until

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I was my last week of high school. So literally

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as I was stepping out of high school graduation,

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I became a follower of Jesus. Before that, I

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had no real point of reference. And so I was

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a blank slate going into college and step. into

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young adulthood and I was hungry for fathers

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spiritual fathers I didn't understand the concept

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back then I just knew that I would see somebody

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they were further down the road than me and I

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would go and I would ask them would you would

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you coach me would you mentor me would you lead

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me and so God put just a number of mature men

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in my life at various seasons that walked with

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me for a season and then their time was done

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it'd be time for somebody else and even to this

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day I reached out to Max Lucado has become a

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dear friend of mine. And about three years ago,

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I reached out to Max, four years ago now. I said,

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would you be my mentor? And he said, Jimmy, I'll

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be the worst mentor you've ever had. But yes,

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I will do it, but I'll be terrible. So when he

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texts me to catch up with me, he'll say, from

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the worst mentor ever, Max. But he mentors me

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from a distance. I don't demand his time. I study

00:12:59.379 --> 00:13:01.539
his teaching and preaching. But that's one person

00:13:01.539 --> 00:13:04.509
I'm... is on my list of people I'd like to meet,

00:13:04.570 --> 00:13:08.590
so now I know who knows him. Well, what you see

00:13:08.590 --> 00:13:10.909
is what you get with that man. He is the real

00:13:10.909 --> 00:13:14.029
deal. I devoured all his books. I buy every book

00:13:14.029 --> 00:13:18.289
when it comes out. It's a sidebar, but I learned

00:13:18.289 --> 00:13:21.190
the art of the triad communication from his triad

00:13:21.190 --> 00:13:22.909
writing because he would always write in three

00:13:22.909 --> 00:13:25.470
forms. He would give three illustrations, goals,

00:13:25.570 --> 00:13:27.529
dreams, ambitions. He would always give you the

00:13:27.529 --> 00:13:30.649
track. When I started speaking like that, I realized

00:13:30.649 --> 00:13:34.019
that, everybody will pick one track, and you'll

00:13:34.019 --> 00:13:36.139
be able to get three people simultaneously. So

00:13:36.139 --> 00:13:38.440
it's a very unique style of writing he has. Beautiful.

00:13:38.440 --> 00:13:40.879
Very descriptive. Now, I don't know if he calls

00:13:40.879 --> 00:13:43.539
it that, but I said that I call it the triad

00:13:43.539 --> 00:13:45.720
method of teaching. Yeah, he always, like, will

00:13:45.720 --> 00:13:47.139
give you three illustrations. You would probably

00:13:47.139 --> 00:13:48.960
blow his mind if he said that. He said, there's

00:13:48.960 --> 00:13:52.360
a name for this? That's Max. When I met Max.

00:13:53.739 --> 00:13:56.120
Funny story. I'm going to be really transparent

00:13:56.120 --> 00:13:59.620
here. I had been hired to come aboard of Oak

00:13:59.620 --> 00:14:02.120
Hills Church. It's the one that Max has led for

00:14:02.120 --> 00:14:04.779
years. And I was working for Dave Ramsey in Nashville.

00:14:05.019 --> 00:14:09.799
I was doing that. I was in that world. Go big

00:14:09.799 --> 00:14:12.820
or go home. That's Dave. But we knew we were

00:14:12.820 --> 00:14:15.539
called back to Texas. So I reached out to a friend

00:14:15.539 --> 00:14:18.320
who's working for Max. And I said, are there

00:14:18.320 --> 00:14:21.259
any openings there? I said, I've been doing.

00:14:21.769 --> 00:14:23.789
Financial Peaks University, a love day, but I'm

00:14:23.789 --> 00:14:26.090
a pastor. I need to be back doing what I'm called

00:14:26.090 --> 00:14:29.129
to do, even though I was doing it anyway in that

00:14:29.129 --> 00:14:31.309
environment. And sure enough, the door opened.

00:14:31.370 --> 00:14:33.169
Long story short, I ended up there. I had not

00:14:33.169 --> 00:14:35.710
had a chance to meet Max, but I bet all the other

00:14:35.710 --> 00:14:39.009
staff. I'm over there for a meeting in San Antonio.

00:14:39.409 --> 00:14:42.730
I have to go for a bathroom break, right? I walk

00:14:42.730 --> 00:14:47.070
in there. Guess who's in there? Max. And, you

00:14:47.070 --> 00:14:50.570
know, man law. Where I grew up is you don't talk.

00:14:50.809 --> 00:14:52.970
You know, hey, how's it going? You mind your

00:14:52.970 --> 00:14:56.029
own business, right? He starts talking. I mean,

00:14:56.049 --> 00:14:58.169
he talks like we're standing at a – we're at

00:14:58.169 --> 00:15:00.590
a cafe or something. And, I mean, he's talking

00:15:00.590 --> 00:15:03.929
and talking. Well, he's in the little bay thing.

00:15:04.149 --> 00:15:07.450
He's talking. Well, I'm done. But I'm like, do

00:15:07.450 --> 00:15:10.070
I flush? Will I interrupt the conversation? This

00:15:10.070 --> 00:15:13.269
could be really awkward. So I finally just –

00:15:13.820 --> 00:15:16.539
I went ahead and flushed. And then I walked over

00:15:16.539 --> 00:15:19.259
and I washed my hands. He's still talking. Now

00:15:19.259 --> 00:15:23.519
I'm done. And he's still talking. So I'm just

00:15:23.519 --> 00:15:26.360
now standing in the doorway of the bathroom with

00:15:26.360 --> 00:15:29.759
Max Lucado talking. I thought, this is my story

00:15:29.759 --> 00:15:31.860
of how I met Max Lucado. It was in the men's

00:15:31.860 --> 00:15:35.379
room with him talking for an embarrassingly long

00:15:35.379 --> 00:15:39.720
time. And I still think about that. And the funny

00:15:39.720 --> 00:15:44.259
thing about it is he was exactly the same. in

00:15:44.259 --> 00:15:47.779
that bathroom as he is in the pulpit and as he

00:15:47.779 --> 00:15:49.960
is over a cup of coffee or eating a steak together

00:15:49.960 --> 00:15:52.340
at a restaurant. He's exactly the same. Yeah,

00:15:52.340 --> 00:15:54.980
the consistency is what you look for. Yes. Mr.

00:15:55.139 --> 00:15:56.799
Ziegler was, you know, when people ask me, tell

00:15:56.799 --> 00:15:59.220
me about him. I said, if the dictionary ever

00:15:59.220 --> 00:16:01.740
went pictorial, the word consistency would have

00:16:01.740 --> 00:16:03.580
to have Mr. Ziegler's picture. Otherwise, don't

00:16:03.580 --> 00:16:06.480
buy it. What you saw is what you... I said, but

00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:11.620
I only knew him 20 years. I love that whole life

00:16:11.620 --> 00:16:14.539
integration. Somebody who's consistent wherever

00:16:14.539 --> 00:16:16.379
they are and their whole life is integrated.

00:16:16.740 --> 00:16:20.080
And isn't that what... salvation is? Isn't that

00:16:20.080 --> 00:16:24.159
what sanctification is, as we're on this journey

00:16:24.159 --> 00:16:26.620
and we're growing and maturing and learning?

00:16:26.720 --> 00:16:29.320
Hopefully over time, instead of being these scattered,

00:16:29.500 --> 00:16:32.059
fragmented individuals that we were in our 18

00:16:32.059 --> 00:16:36.259
and 20s, that over time we begin to integrate

00:16:36.259 --> 00:16:39.690
the parts of who we are so that... Wherever you

00:16:39.690 --> 00:16:42.950
see us, we're the same. That's the goal. I think

00:16:42.950 --> 00:16:47.769
that's what Jesus modeled. But he was also, he

00:16:47.769 --> 00:16:50.149
knew what to be where he was when it was needed.

00:16:50.309 --> 00:16:52.929
So if he needed to turn over some tables and

00:16:52.929 --> 00:16:55.830
fashion a whip of cords, he did. But if he needed

00:16:55.830 --> 00:16:58.710
to kneel in the dirt with someone caught in adultery,

00:16:58.750 --> 00:17:02.019
he did that too. It's beautiful. Yeah, in fact,

00:17:02.059 --> 00:17:03.799
when you're bringing that up, the two illustrations

00:17:03.799 --> 00:17:06.000
I do, which is, you know, when I teach, when

00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:09.359
I do the messages at conferences and all, I always

00:17:09.359 --> 00:17:11.880
bring a side that they've never considered. So

00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:13.619
I said, you know, the two most surprising stories

00:17:13.619 --> 00:17:16.900
in the Bible, both include our Lord, but I'm

00:17:16.900 --> 00:17:19.500
just looking at the other character. One was

00:17:19.500 --> 00:17:21.460
Lazarus, you know, he'd done the sick, he'd done

00:17:21.460 --> 00:17:23.119
the blind, and also it was time to raise the

00:17:23.119 --> 00:17:25.880
dead. So he tells Lazarus. Now, Lazarus already

00:17:25.880 --> 00:17:27.960
knew Jesus, and he'd been dead three days. So

00:17:27.960 --> 00:17:29.839
if we know our Bible to true, he's already in

00:17:29.839 --> 00:17:33.640
heaven. Well, Jesus is still on earth, and Lazarus

00:17:33.640 --> 00:17:35.940
gets a knock on his door and says, hey, you know

00:17:35.940 --> 00:17:39.119
what? We have a recall. And he says, man, please,

00:17:39.420 --> 00:17:42.359
those complaining sisters that heat the outdoor

00:17:42.359 --> 00:17:45.420
bathroom, is there any way I can avoid that?

00:17:45.759 --> 00:17:47.880
So I said, even though it's a great story we

00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:50.440
tell, can you imagine that plight? We got a recall.

00:17:50.500 --> 00:17:52.880
You got to go back. Oh, my gosh. And the second

00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:55.940
one is the thief on the cross. Peter is still

00:17:55.940 --> 00:17:57.920
on earth, so he's not guarding the gate. Christ

00:17:57.920 --> 00:17:59.720
is still here. Pentecost hasn't happened, so

00:17:59.720 --> 00:18:01.880
he arrives in heaven, and someone says, on whose

00:18:01.880 --> 00:18:03.900
authority are you here? He said, the dude in

00:18:03.900 --> 00:18:08.180
the middle said, today. So I do it tongue -in

00:18:08.180 --> 00:18:10.980
-cheek for the youth to enjoy. I love it, brother.

00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:14.599
I love it. I always say this, that if God doesn't

00:18:14.599 --> 00:18:16.359
have a sense of humor, if we find out at the

00:18:16.359 --> 00:18:19.359
end, I'm in big trouble. I'm in really big trouble.

00:18:19.759 --> 00:18:22.680
So I had a moment today where I just felt the

00:18:22.680 --> 00:18:25.250
playfulness of God in a moment. We had a staff

00:18:25.250 --> 00:18:26.950
meeting. At our staff meeting, we always start

00:18:26.950 --> 00:18:29.569
off with just, I wouldn't even call it a devotional.

00:18:29.569 --> 00:18:31.750
I don't want to minimize it to that. It's really

00:18:31.750 --> 00:18:33.990
a much deeper thing where I just share what's

00:18:33.990 --> 00:18:35.670
going on in my heart and what God's been doing.

00:18:35.890 --> 00:18:38.309
And I shared a little bit about just Brother

00:18:38.309 --> 00:18:41.309
Lawrence and Frank Laubach. The book Practicing

00:18:41.309 --> 00:18:44.029
His Presence was a real impactor on me as a young

00:18:44.029 --> 00:18:46.230
Christian. And I was sharing that story. And

00:18:46.230 --> 00:18:49.500
so Pastor Russ, he brings up. We're talking about

00:18:49.500 --> 00:18:51.380
John Eldridge now. John Eldridge is doing some

00:18:51.380 --> 00:18:54.740
really neat, deep work right now. Wild at heart.

00:18:55.420 --> 00:18:58.440
Wild at heart. John's been a real, he doesn't

00:18:58.440 --> 00:19:00.500
know it, but he's been a mentor to me as well.

00:19:00.539 --> 00:19:02.140
I've got a lot of mentors they don't know. They

00:19:02.140 --> 00:19:03.799
don't know who I am, but they've mentored me.

00:19:04.440 --> 00:19:08.539
And big impact on both Russ and I. So Russ says,

00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:10.660
I'm going to, on my phone, I'm going to play

00:19:10.660 --> 00:19:13.940
this. exercise at the end of john's new book

00:19:13.940 --> 00:19:16.380
in the in the and it's where he leads you into

00:19:16.380 --> 00:19:19.440
a prayer of descent where you go into and you're

00:19:19.440 --> 00:19:21.980
trying to trying to find that inner person and

00:19:21.980 --> 00:19:24.559
and so we did it and i did i don't know that

00:19:24.559 --> 00:19:26.519
i expected much other than just wow peaceful

00:19:26.519 --> 00:19:29.539
moment right here in john pray and as he's praying

00:19:29.539 --> 00:19:33.420
i literally in my mind's eye I see myself following

00:19:33.420 --> 00:19:36.220
Jesus down a path. Oh, wow. And it's like, I

00:19:36.220 --> 00:19:38.240
don't know if you've ever heard of Carlsbad Caverns,

00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:40.579
Carlsbad, New Mexico. It's a fascinating place.

00:19:40.819 --> 00:19:43.160
And there's these little walkways and paths through

00:19:43.160 --> 00:19:46.119
these stalagmites and stalactites and beautiful

00:19:46.119 --> 00:19:49.799
formations. It's stunning, but it's deep into

00:19:49.799 --> 00:19:53.259
the hole in the ground cave. So I was in a very

00:19:53.259 --> 00:19:56.869
scene like that. Jesus. opens the door and this

00:19:56.869 --> 00:19:59.410
prayer of descents taking you deeper in and he

00:19:59.410 --> 00:20:01.470
opens the door and i'm just seeing this in my

00:20:01.470 --> 00:20:04.549
mind's eye like i'm watching a movie and he looks

00:20:04.549 --> 00:20:07.549
at me he goes you coming and he smiles at me

00:20:07.549 --> 00:20:11.349
it's that playful oh wow impish grin you coming

00:20:11.349 --> 00:20:14.609
so i walk up to the door and then we get in one

00:20:14.609 --> 00:20:16.170
of those little awkward moments that christians

00:20:16.170 --> 00:20:19.130
do at door no you go no no you go no yeah we're

00:20:19.130 --> 00:20:21.609
both saying it and we're both laughing and then

00:20:21.609 --> 00:20:25.549
he then i i He lets me go first. And I walk in

00:20:25.549 --> 00:20:28.170
and what I realized, it was my heart. It was

00:20:28.170 --> 00:20:30.950
a descent into my heart. And when I walked in

00:20:30.950 --> 00:20:33.210
and I knew before I got there, it's going to

00:20:33.210 --> 00:20:35.250
be bigger on the inside than it is the outside.

00:20:35.490 --> 00:20:38.650
And as soon as I stepped in, it's like I saw

00:20:38.650 --> 00:20:41.329
galaxies. Like if you step out on a cold Texas

00:20:41.329 --> 00:20:44.710
night and no, I mean, it is just brilliant skies.

00:20:45.029 --> 00:20:47.829
And it was that. And I was immediately there

00:20:47.829 --> 00:20:51.849
and just was. in awe of the vastness of it but

00:20:51.849 --> 00:20:54.710
and then and then the prayer ended and we sort

00:20:54.710 --> 00:20:58.309
of came out of that and and uh it was just the

00:20:58.309 --> 00:21:02.430
playfulness of jesus and i just thought he was

00:21:02.430 --> 00:21:06.109
smiling he was laughing that and that may be

00:21:06.109 --> 00:21:10.789
just my view of him how i see him but i do find

00:21:10.789 --> 00:21:13.769
him to be playful yeah and chesterton says that

00:21:13.769 --> 00:21:16.309
he says that you know we know where jesus wept

00:21:16.309 --> 00:21:20.289
but When you look up at the hope and the gleefulness

00:21:20.289 --> 00:21:22.710
or the hopefulness or the playfulness of Jesus,

00:21:22.789 --> 00:21:26.509
through all of the turmoil, we have to say that

00:21:26.509 --> 00:21:30.509
he had to have some mirth to go through it. And

00:21:30.509 --> 00:21:34.289
I'm known in India and globally, I have the moniker

00:21:34.289 --> 00:21:36.950
of the laughing evangelist. Beautiful, beautiful.

00:21:37.609 --> 00:21:38.990
That's a good thing to be known as. I had a very

00:21:38.990 --> 00:21:41.089
serious thinker come up to me in India. He says,

00:21:41.150 --> 00:21:43.410
I see where it says Jesus wept. I didn't see

00:21:43.410 --> 00:21:45.089
where he says he laughed. I said, oh, that's

00:21:45.089 --> 00:21:47.220
present continuous. He said, what do you mean?

00:21:47.440 --> 00:21:49.460
I said, he's laughing at both of us right now.

00:21:49.519 --> 00:21:51.299
I said, I can't believe I entrusted these two

00:21:51.299 --> 00:21:53.779
yokels with the Great Commission. Of all the

00:21:53.779 --> 00:21:55.799
problems in the world he's worried about. I would

00:21:55.799 --> 00:21:57.339
have high -fived you right there at the moment.

00:21:57.440 --> 00:21:59.359
Mr. Ziegler had a line about laughter, which

00:21:59.359 --> 00:22:02.440
is why he used to use it. He says there's some

00:22:02.440 --> 00:22:04.519
new scientific evidence that's come out that

00:22:04.519 --> 00:22:06.500
if you have a tendency to laugh and you suppress

00:22:06.500 --> 00:22:08.599
the laughter, it'll come back inside and spread

00:22:08.599 --> 00:22:13.539
your hips. So let it out. Let it go or else you'll

00:22:13.539 --> 00:22:16.319
pay for it later. He said it'd be expensive on

00:22:16.319 --> 00:22:18.119
the wardrobe. I love that. Well, there's a scripture

00:22:18.119 --> 00:22:20.200
that says that he was filled with joy more than

00:22:20.200 --> 00:22:24.049
all of his brethren. You see that God laughed

00:22:24.049 --> 00:22:26.150
over the nations, danced over the nations. I

00:22:26.150 --> 00:22:28.630
mean, he laughed at the kings. There's too much

00:22:28.630 --> 00:22:33.470
in there of levity and life. And I can't help

00:22:33.470 --> 00:22:36.250
but believe that the word soteria would not encompass

00:22:36.250 --> 00:22:39.369
the joy and laughter of life, one of the fruit

00:22:39.369 --> 00:22:43.130
of the spirit. I love the joy. I can imagine,

00:22:43.450 --> 00:22:46.450
you know, Christ, the encounter with Paul and

00:22:46.450 --> 00:22:49.920
saying, man. I got to turn this guy around. No

00:22:49.920 --> 00:22:51.660
kidding. And he's going to be my emissary to

00:22:51.660 --> 00:22:54.039
the kings and the Gentiles. And then looking

00:22:54.039 --> 00:22:56.799
at Peter saying, oh man, this guy is just like,

00:22:56.900 --> 00:23:00.420
even the scripture says that after the resurrection,

00:23:00.779 --> 00:23:03.279
the women got there first. So Peter was slow.

00:23:03.690 --> 00:23:06.069
So he's like a slow, reluctant guy. I've always

00:23:06.069 --> 00:23:08.430
wondered about that. The slow, reluctant guy

00:23:08.430 --> 00:23:09.990
is going to be the one on whom he builds the

00:23:09.990 --> 00:23:11.650
church. I said, there's hope for us. And then

00:23:11.650 --> 00:23:13.849
Jesus was like, I can't reveal myself to you.

00:23:13.990 --> 00:23:16.529
So Mary, get over here. You know, meets him at

00:23:16.529 --> 00:23:18.170
the door, slams the door in his face and moves

00:23:18.170 --> 00:23:21.589
on. But I love the fact that there is levity

00:23:21.589 --> 00:23:24.349
in the scripture. Now, I do appreciate the way

00:23:24.349 --> 00:23:26.809
that Dallas Jenkins and the guys of the chosen

00:23:26.809 --> 00:23:30.740
have. played that, the plausibility of laughter

00:23:30.740 --> 00:23:32.940
and joking. And I love that they've done that.

00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:36.660
I think they're doing a lot right now to reveal

00:23:36.660 --> 00:23:40.000
a side of Christianity and a side of Jesus through

00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:44.509
Jonathan Rumi playing Jesus. The David? Yes.

00:23:44.849 --> 00:23:47.369
Oh, last night I'm like, is it out yet? Is the

00:23:47.369 --> 00:23:49.890
new one out? I'm caught up. So I was at the NRB

00:23:49.890 --> 00:23:53.170
a week and a half or two weeks ago when they

00:23:53.170 --> 00:23:56.450
showed it up there. Oh, it's so good. Yeah, it's

00:23:56.450 --> 00:23:58.569
quite brilliantly done. It is powerful. Because

00:23:58.569 --> 00:24:00.430
that's the side of David we don't get to hear.

00:24:00.799 --> 00:24:02.839
And so I had to go back and read some of this

00:24:02.839 --> 00:24:04.640
thing, the Torah, the exegesis and all that.

00:24:05.180 --> 00:24:07.680
About his mother. You know, I didn't know that

00:24:07.680 --> 00:24:11.079
he was, you know. Those are real deal goose pimples

00:24:11.079 --> 00:24:13.220
right there. I mean, I've got chill bumps thinking

00:24:13.220 --> 00:24:15.920
about it because as we were watching, I told

00:24:15.920 --> 00:24:17.819
her, she said, did you know that? I'm going,

00:24:17.960 --> 00:24:20.819
actually, no, I feel bad. I got out first Samuel.

00:24:20.859 --> 00:24:23.390
I started tracking along. I'm like. I did not

00:24:23.390 --> 00:24:26.069
see that. There's a lot of hidden gems in there

00:24:26.069 --> 00:24:28.390
that they mined out. They've done a brilliant

00:24:28.390 --> 00:24:31.509
job with it. So really appreciative of what Dallas

00:24:31.509 --> 00:24:34.750
has done. We got to go visit on the set during

00:24:34.750 --> 00:24:37.029
the second season. So Annette and I were on set

00:24:37.029 --> 00:24:40.230
that day and got to have lunch with the cast

00:24:40.230 --> 00:24:42.609
and hang out with them. And it was such a good

00:24:42.609 --> 00:24:46.140
time. But it was also... I got to see behind

00:24:46.140 --> 00:24:49.799
the scenes and how much work goes into this production.

00:24:49.880 --> 00:24:53.700
I had no idea the work that goes into that. Yeah,

00:24:53.720 --> 00:24:55.619
we were actually, our team in Dallas produced

00:24:55.619 --> 00:24:58.400
a movie called The Least of These, which is also

00:24:58.400 --> 00:25:01.720
on Amazon. But Stephen Baldwin was, it was based

00:25:01.720 --> 00:25:04.160
on the life of a missionary by the name of Graham

00:25:04.160 --> 00:25:06.539
Staines, who was martyred in India. And that

00:25:06.539 --> 00:25:09.579
was as recent as 1999. An Australian missionary

00:25:09.579 --> 00:25:12.519
was burnt alive with his two boys, Philip and

00:25:12.519 --> 00:25:16.190
Timothy. And so I was preaching in India and

00:25:16.190 --> 00:25:18.069
I got a chance. Someone came up to me and said,

00:25:18.130 --> 00:25:21.029
I have this script. And we won a bunch of ICBM

00:25:21.029 --> 00:25:22.490
awards and all that. Beautiful. So I brought

00:25:22.490 --> 00:25:24.329
it back. And my friend, Victor Abraham in Dallas,

00:25:24.470 --> 00:25:25.710
bankrolled the whole thing. It was about a $5

00:25:25.710 --> 00:25:29.789
million production. And so we did it on set in

00:25:29.789 --> 00:25:32.509
India. It's huge. Nice. I'll watch it. It's called

00:25:32.509 --> 00:25:35.470
The Least of These, The Graham Stain Story. The

00:25:35.470 --> 00:25:39.390
Graham. Yeah. So Gladys, the beauty of that story

00:25:39.390 --> 00:25:42.569
is after she realized that her husband and...

00:25:42.759 --> 00:25:46.079
two boys were burnt alive at the same time. And

00:25:46.079 --> 00:25:47.539
she was just left with her daughter, Esther.

00:25:48.039 --> 00:25:50.480
And the government officials came and said, you

00:25:50.480 --> 00:25:52.519
have to be strong for Esther. Her next words

00:25:52.519 --> 00:25:55.339
were, whoever did this, we will forgive them.

00:25:55.579 --> 00:25:57.819
Wow. And the government of India saw that as

00:25:57.819 --> 00:25:59.700
horrid as it was, they gave her one of India's

00:25:59.700 --> 00:26:02.339
highest honors saying, the darkest day in India

00:26:02.339 --> 00:26:05.319
was given light by this woman's forgiveness.

00:26:06.039 --> 00:26:08.500
And when her husband's funeral was taking place,

00:26:08.539 --> 00:26:10.940
there's a YouTube clip of that. She's sitting

00:26:10.940 --> 00:26:12.869
with her daughter following the, Following the

00:26:12.869 --> 00:26:14.910
casket. Oh, my goodness. And the song that plays

00:26:14.910 --> 00:26:17.289
is Because He Lives, We Confess Tomorrow. Wow.

00:26:17.690 --> 00:26:22.019
That is... Beautiful. Yeah. Only Jesus. Yeah.

00:26:22.019 --> 00:26:24.220
So I've written a Bible study on that and along

00:26:24.220 --> 00:26:26.940
with the screenwriter that we've done apologetics

00:26:26.940 --> 00:26:29.099
on what is truth and all that. So, but yeah,

00:26:29.240 --> 00:26:30.880
I'll show you, I'll share some of that with you

00:26:30.880 --> 00:26:33.200
later. I'd love to see, I'd love to see that.

00:26:33.339 --> 00:26:35.359
I'd like to also hear a little bit about how

00:26:35.359 --> 00:26:38.359
you got connected with Rick Green and Kara and

00:26:38.359 --> 00:26:41.400
the green team, I call them and how you ended

00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:44.700
up helping them at the Patriot Academy. So that,

00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:47.069
yeah, so we, everything is. It's continuous,

00:26:47.150 --> 00:26:49.690
you know, as they say, coincidence is God's way

00:26:49.690 --> 00:26:53.750
of remaining anonymous. So Rick came to Mr. Ziegler's

00:26:53.750 --> 00:26:56.349
office while I was working there. I was a telemarketer

00:26:56.349 --> 00:26:59.029
and traveling with Mr. Ziegler. Rick's dad had

00:26:59.029 --> 00:27:01.789
used Mr. Ziegler in Arkansas for some sales meetings

00:27:01.789 --> 00:27:04.750
before Mr. Ziegler really hit it big. So he knew

00:27:04.750 --> 00:27:08.069
Richard Green, the senior. And so Rick used that

00:27:08.069 --> 00:27:10.839
leverage and came to the office. had a book.

00:27:10.940 --> 00:27:13.500
At that time, Rick will also admit he was Tony

00:27:13.500 --> 00:27:15.720
Robbins with a big influence on his life. He

00:27:15.720 --> 00:27:20.200
told me that. Jumping all over the place. Fundamental

00:27:20.200 --> 00:27:22.000
difference between Zig Ziglar and Tony Robbins

00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:24.900
was Tony Robbins was NLP mind control and Ziglar

00:27:24.900 --> 00:27:27.880
was free will. There you go. So I knew teams

00:27:27.880 --> 00:27:30.720
on both sides. So one day Rick shows up and Mr.

00:27:30.819 --> 00:27:32.440
Ziglar introduces me to him. He says, this is

00:27:32.440 --> 00:27:34.500
a young man and I've known his father, but I

00:27:34.500 --> 00:27:37.619
want you guys to be friends. At that time, Rick

00:27:37.619 --> 00:27:40.480
was writing a book. And at the same time, I was

00:27:40.480 --> 00:27:42.460
going through a turmoil because we had a manager

00:27:42.460 --> 00:27:44.599
at the Ziglo Corporation who was creating some

00:27:44.599 --> 00:27:47.640
hassle for me. And 20 people already resigned

00:27:47.640 --> 00:27:49.259
the previous day because they didn't like this

00:27:49.259 --> 00:27:55.119
manager. So I also turned in my resignation because

00:27:55.119 --> 00:27:56.980
I had met Rick and Rick said, why don't you come

00:27:56.980 --> 00:27:59.099
work for me? He had started a small company.

00:27:59.740 --> 00:28:02.930
But giving me a big title. I was a telemarketer.

00:28:02.930 --> 00:28:05.630
He was going to make me VP of that typical mindset.

00:28:06.509 --> 00:28:08.970
So I turned into my resignation. Mr. Ziegler

00:28:08.970 --> 00:28:12.450
called me to his house and I said, well, I'm

00:28:12.450 --> 00:28:14.089
going to go work for a green. I can't work for

00:28:14.089 --> 00:28:15.569
this company anymore. I don't like this guy.

00:28:15.630 --> 00:28:17.269
He said, well, I'm rejecting your resignation

00:28:17.269 --> 00:28:19.769
letter. Don't worry about the other guy. He'll

00:28:19.769 --> 00:28:21.890
be gone in the morning. Now come to my office

00:28:21.890 --> 00:28:23.470
in the morning and I have something to say to

00:28:23.470 --> 00:28:27.089
Rick too. So we went to the office and I'm, this

00:28:27.089 --> 00:28:29.190
is a story. This is true. So I'm in Mr. Ziegler's

00:28:29.190 --> 00:28:31.480
office and we dialed Rick Green. Rick answers.

00:28:31.559 --> 00:28:32.900
He says, Rick, this is your old buddy. He's like,

00:28:32.960 --> 00:28:35.140
oh, Mr. Ziegler. He says, now, Rick, you've submitted

00:28:35.140 --> 00:28:37.640
a manuscript to me that you wanted me to endorse.

00:28:38.819 --> 00:28:40.519
He says, I'm going to tell you two things you're

00:28:40.519 --> 00:28:42.440
not going to like. One is I'm not endorsing your

00:28:42.440 --> 00:28:45.799
book. You're not ready for it. Second, you can't

00:28:45.799 --> 00:28:49.700
have Krish. He's not ready for you. Give him

00:28:49.700 --> 00:28:52.519
to me for 10 more years. Go work on your manuscript

00:28:52.519 --> 00:28:54.579
for a couple of years. Mature a little bit. I'll

00:28:54.579 --> 00:28:57.579
endorse it a little later. And one thing I promise

00:28:57.579 --> 00:29:00.470
you, you both will be lifelong friends. So I

00:29:00.470 --> 00:29:03.170
stayed back with Mr. Ziegler. Rick came back

00:29:03.170 --> 00:29:05.349
with the book later. Mr. Ziegler endorsed it.

00:29:05.529 --> 00:29:08.009
And then when Rick, we stayed friends. And then

00:29:08.009 --> 00:29:10.490
I was there the night Rick proposed to Kara.

00:29:10.490 --> 00:29:12.509
I was the speaker for his event the night Rick

00:29:12.509 --> 00:29:14.529
proposed to Kara. And I officiated the wedding

00:29:14.529 --> 00:29:18.549
of Frey. Wow. So we go way back. You do, you

00:29:18.549 --> 00:29:20.829
do. So when he started Patriot Academy, I used

00:29:20.829 --> 00:29:23.089
to give whatever time I could, go wherever. Anytime

00:29:23.089 --> 00:29:25.250
he started a new academy, he would invite me

00:29:25.250 --> 00:29:27.849
as clergy to do the charge. But I taught at all

00:29:27.849 --> 00:29:30.130
his academies and I was rated fairly high because

00:29:30.130 --> 00:29:31.970
I brought the apologetics and the worldview.

00:29:32.750 --> 00:29:36.309
And so I've been part of Patriot Academy speaking

00:29:36.309 --> 00:29:39.430
since the third one, I think. Wow. So I've done

00:29:39.430 --> 00:29:41.690
it a long time. Wonderful. About six years ago,

00:29:41.750 --> 00:29:44.089
he said, you know, my goal is to start a campus

00:29:44.089 --> 00:29:47.309
wherever God allows us. And I want you to at

00:29:47.309 --> 00:29:49.890
that point, you'll be ready because this is I'm

00:29:49.890 --> 00:29:52.369
63. I'm a little about 10 years older than him.

00:29:52.990 --> 00:29:54.950
So he says, will you join me at that season?

00:29:55.049 --> 00:29:57.410
So that was always the design that we would do

00:29:57.410 --> 00:29:59.869
something together to fulfill Mr. Ziegler's legacy.

00:30:00.250 --> 00:30:04.170
Beautiful. Love that. But this was sped up because

00:30:04.170 --> 00:30:06.589
the Texas Capitol reconstruction, we had to bring

00:30:06.589 --> 00:30:09.049
Tara suddenly in 11 months had to put that thing

00:30:09.049 --> 00:30:11.549
up. It was wild. So he reached out to me last

00:30:11.549 --> 00:30:13.990
year and said, well, the timetable has changed.

00:30:14.069 --> 00:30:15.869
We're going to start an academy next year and

00:30:15.869 --> 00:30:18.880
I need you to come down as the dean. My apprehension

00:30:18.880 --> 00:30:20.980
was my wife has some medical conditions. All

00:30:20.980 --> 00:30:24.480
her doctors are in Dallas and all. But the first

00:30:24.480 --> 00:30:27.299
time she came here, she fell in love with it

00:30:27.299 --> 00:30:29.680
more than I did. And she started convincing me,

00:30:29.720 --> 00:30:31.660
this is what God wants us to do. I want you to

00:30:31.660 --> 00:30:34.299
be around these kids. On a personal story, we've

00:30:34.299 --> 00:30:36.660
had a little grief with our own son who became

00:30:36.660 --> 00:30:38.799
a casualty of the culture. He lives in Boston.

00:30:39.079 --> 00:30:41.880
Yeah, I understand. And God gave me 12 young

00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:44.740
interns to pour into who hang on our every word.

00:30:44.819 --> 00:30:47.740
So it was almost like... Everything has come

00:30:47.740 --> 00:30:52.200
full circle. Wow. But, you know, I travel around

00:30:52.200 --> 00:30:54.240
and people say, what's so great about Texas?

00:30:54.400 --> 00:30:56.619
And I jokingly say, you know, it's the simplest

00:30:56.619 --> 00:30:59.519
state to live in. If it's moving, we tend to

00:30:59.519 --> 00:31:03.000
hug it. If it's not, we sell it. If it argues,

00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:06.519
we shoot it. It's the easiest way to make a decision.

00:31:06.519 --> 00:31:09.480
We don't call 911, that's for sure. I love that.

00:31:09.640 --> 00:31:13.200
So in Texas, concealed carry is a skunk. And

00:31:13.200 --> 00:31:17.559
open carry is a porcupine. That's true, brother.

00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:21.380
It's true. But, yeah, so we've been friends.

00:31:21.460 --> 00:31:24.180
I've known the kids, you know. So when I bully

00:31:24.180 --> 00:31:26.740
the kids, they come to me and say, Mr. Dunham,

00:31:26.740 --> 00:31:28.559
you said this. I said, first thing, remember,

00:31:28.880 --> 00:31:32.220
I knew you before you were born. So stop it.

00:31:33.319 --> 00:31:35.660
So Trey is the only one who has an affection

00:31:35.660 --> 00:31:37.779
to me that is different because I was the firstborn

00:31:37.779 --> 00:31:41.150
and I had his wedding and all that. All the kids

00:31:41.150 --> 00:31:43.230
have pretty much grown up around me, and it's

00:31:43.230 --> 00:31:45.529
such a joy to be on the campus and do life with

00:31:45.529 --> 00:31:48.549
them, meet their new life partners and explore

00:31:48.549 --> 00:31:51.930
into them. It's happening fast. I've only known

00:31:51.930 --> 00:31:55.549
Rick three years, and already, I mean, a lot

00:31:55.549 --> 00:31:57.329
of life has happened in the last three years

00:31:57.329 --> 00:32:00.950
with the campus. See, I live two miles past the

00:32:00.950 --> 00:32:04.009
campus. I drive by it every day. So I see what's

00:32:04.009 --> 00:32:06.170
happening. I see, oh, there's eight more tiny

00:32:06.170 --> 00:32:08.150
homes. Oh, there's another ten. I mean, I've

00:32:08.150 --> 00:32:14.079
watched all that go up. So I met Rick three years

00:32:14.079 --> 00:32:16.779
ago at a Lincoln Reagan dinner. Oh, wow. It was

00:32:16.779 --> 00:32:18.980
the first one they had here in Fredericksburg

00:32:18.980 --> 00:32:22.059
in Gillespie County. And he was one of the featured

00:32:22.059 --> 00:32:25.640
speakers. And just like when I see somebody I

00:32:25.640 --> 00:32:27.460
want to be around, I go be around them. So I

00:32:27.460 --> 00:32:29.619
was sitting there going. I leaned over to Annette

00:32:29.619 --> 00:32:31.940
and I said, I don't know who this guy is, but

00:32:31.940 --> 00:32:34.859
he's got something I like. His fire, his positivity,

00:32:35.259 --> 00:32:38.430
his energy. I said. I said, I need that guy in

00:32:38.430 --> 00:32:41.529
my life. And we met that night. Yeah, so I mean,

00:32:41.569 --> 00:32:45.269
he does the 300 words a minute with Gus up to

00:32:45.269 --> 00:32:47.470
600. And he's got so much to say, and he wants

00:32:47.470 --> 00:32:49.589
to say it all at the same time. And I like to

00:32:49.589 --> 00:32:51.390
take a little breath every once in a while. So

00:32:51.390 --> 00:32:54.269
we were speaking at an event together. And they

00:32:54.269 --> 00:32:56.170
said, do you have any? So they asked him for

00:32:56.170 --> 00:32:58.910
his PowerPoint of like 84 slides. They asked

00:32:58.910 --> 00:33:01.150
me, do you have any PowerPoint? I said, no. They

00:33:01.150 --> 00:33:02.990
said, you don't? I said, no, I just make my point

00:33:02.990 --> 00:33:09.049
with power. So we've been, you know, of course,

00:33:09.049 --> 00:33:10.869
he's being younger than me, but we've been brothers

00:33:10.869 --> 00:33:14.990
for a long time. And it's just, you know, and

00:33:14.990 --> 00:33:19.170
now I look back and I see the genius of a man

00:33:19.170 --> 00:33:21.769
who says, you can't have him. Give him to me

00:33:21.769 --> 00:33:23.930
for 10 more years and you'll be lifelong friends.

00:33:24.069 --> 00:33:26.009
It's amazing. Don't publish this book. You'll

00:33:26.009 --> 00:33:28.539
be ashamed of it. Work on it for three more years

00:33:28.539 --> 00:33:30.359
and you'll be proud. He told me that story about

00:33:30.359 --> 00:33:32.599
getting dissed on that book. He said that was

00:33:32.599 --> 00:33:34.960
a hard pill to swallow. He goes, he was absolutely

00:33:34.960 --> 00:33:38.039
right. Yeah. And he, the first time I met Rick,

00:33:38.079 --> 00:33:40.319
you know, he had the whole Tony Robbins and whole

00:33:40.319 --> 00:33:42.500
headphones before it was cool. And he's jumping

00:33:42.500 --> 00:33:45.059
up on stage and he looked at me and he says,

00:33:46.210 --> 00:33:48.390
He says, so are you into Tony Robbins? I said,

00:33:48.430 --> 00:33:50.410
no, I grew up in India. You walk on fire there

00:33:50.410 --> 00:33:53.529
because you're bored. It's like, you don't do

00:33:53.529 --> 00:33:55.430
it to bust through anything. You do it to con

00:33:55.430 --> 00:33:59.750
people. It's like, you know, it's like breaking

00:33:59.750 --> 00:34:03.569
a board to have a, why? You know, I said, I can

00:34:03.569 --> 00:34:05.430
understand the concept of breaking through and

00:34:05.430 --> 00:34:07.130
breaking a barrier. And I've done it. I've broken

00:34:07.130 --> 00:34:09.630
the arrows and done all that stuff. But I said,

00:34:09.650 --> 00:34:11.849
at the end of the day, I like Mr. Ziegler. He's

00:34:11.849 --> 00:34:14.590
just cool, calm, you know. A big shot is just

00:34:14.590 --> 00:34:18.269
a small shot who kept on shooting. That's all.

00:34:18.989 --> 00:34:23.230
Oh, brother. So, anyhow, that's the genesis of

00:34:23.230 --> 00:34:27.349
both stories. Oh, it's beautiful. My word for

00:34:27.349 --> 00:34:29.869
the year, every year I do a word. And sometimes

00:34:29.869 --> 00:34:31.699
I get something fresh, sometimes I don't. This

00:34:31.699 --> 00:34:36.420
year, I got the word convergence. This is a season

00:34:36.420 --> 00:34:38.400
where things are converging, coming together.

00:34:38.739 --> 00:34:40.940
And just the story you just told me, I see, we

00:34:40.940 --> 00:34:42.320
were talking about the connectivity. In fact,

00:34:42.380 --> 00:34:44.019
on our staff meeting, we were talking about how

00:34:44.019 --> 00:34:46.280
everything is interconnected. This had to happen

00:34:46.280 --> 00:34:48.579
to get you where you are, even the bad stuff,

00:34:48.719 --> 00:34:51.380
even the ugly, weird stuff. Had to happen because

00:34:51.380 --> 00:34:53.780
it got you where you are now. So don't disdain.

00:34:54.239 --> 00:34:56.500
Don't live with regret. Just say, okay, that

00:34:56.500 --> 00:34:59.119
needed to happen because it positioned me. And

00:34:59.119 --> 00:35:03.579
God is... positioning people i'm just blown away

00:35:03.579 --> 00:35:06.239
here and honestly when i came to fredericksburg

00:35:06.239 --> 00:35:08.659
nine years ago i thought i was coming here to

00:35:08.659 --> 00:35:11.659
quietly retire i'm just going i'm gonna i'm going

00:35:11.659 --> 00:35:14.500
to small sleepy town we're just gonna relax i

00:35:14.500 --> 00:35:17.760
and i remember the guy hired me said do you have

00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:21.619
one more in you and i said i do i do yeah i do

00:35:21.619 --> 00:35:24.619
i felt like i do and uh he didn't know what he

00:35:24.619 --> 00:35:26.679
was saying and i didn't know what i was answering

00:35:26.679 --> 00:35:31.039
but but what what happened when When Max gave

00:35:31.039 --> 00:35:33.840
the reins to the church, gave us this church,

00:35:34.079 --> 00:35:36.559
he looked at me, he said, we're holding you back.

00:35:36.760 --> 00:35:39.460
I'm holding you back, Jimmy. And I said, man,

00:35:39.539 --> 00:35:42.039
no. I said, no, no, coach. And he goes, no, I

00:35:42.039 --> 00:35:46.900
mean it. He said, you're an extension of a city

00:35:46.900 --> 00:35:50.179
church in a country town. He said, it'll always

00:35:50.179 --> 00:35:53.199
be limited. The last thing they need is me over

00:35:53.199 --> 00:35:55.219
there preaching and you hitting play on a machine.

00:35:55.500 --> 00:35:58.139
They need a pastor. And so that's how that all

00:35:58.139 --> 00:36:01.570
came about. But I love the wisdom of that. But

00:36:01.570 --> 00:36:03.889
all those things had to happen to get us where

00:36:03.889 --> 00:36:08.050
we are today. So now here we are. 2019, we became

00:36:08.050 --> 00:36:11.289
the bridge. Six months later, COVID hit. That

00:36:11.289 --> 00:36:14.989
was fun. Okay, so we had to think quick and make

00:36:14.989 --> 00:36:16.969
pivot and do all kinds of things. We figured

00:36:16.969 --> 00:36:20.010
it out pretty quickly. But yet God has been faithful

00:36:20.010 --> 00:36:22.949
through the whole journey. Things had to happen.

00:36:23.150 --> 00:36:26.309
I look back on COVID. First of all, it woke up

00:36:26.309 --> 00:36:28.530
a lot of people. So let's talk about it just

00:36:28.530 --> 00:36:32.750
in that arena a little bit. Tell me about your

00:36:32.750 --> 00:36:36.730
background and your heart for America and why

00:36:36.730 --> 00:36:40.070
that has become a pivotal part of your life.

00:36:40.349 --> 00:36:43.449
Well, it's ironic that I was, you know, as a

00:36:43.449 --> 00:36:46.110
kid, my dad worked for an American company, like

00:36:46.110 --> 00:36:53.500
I said. we were given quarters where all the

00:36:53.500 --> 00:36:56.579
whites lived so we lived in a secluded fairly

00:36:56.579 --> 00:36:59.599
american environment so sunday evenings they

00:36:59.599 --> 00:37:02.199
would only bring american movies to cater to

00:37:02.199 --> 00:37:04.940
the expat so i grew up watching john wayne movies

00:37:04.940 --> 00:37:08.440
and all of that other stuff so was a big connoisseur

00:37:08.440 --> 00:37:11.860
of the west and as one day i told my dad when

00:37:11.860 --> 00:37:13.639
i was about seven or eight i don't remember when

00:37:13.639 --> 00:37:16.179
i said pop um he said what's your goals i said

00:37:16.179 --> 00:37:17.739
i'm gonna go to america he said what you do i

00:37:17.739 --> 00:37:19.139
said i don't know i'll be a truck driver there

00:37:19.579 --> 00:37:22.980
I want to live in the Wild West, kind of, jokingly.

00:37:23.119 --> 00:37:25.239
My dad took it seriously because he knew he said

00:37:25.239 --> 00:37:27.420
that you always had persistence. My dad was always

00:37:27.420 --> 00:37:29.480
convinced that I would do something different.

00:37:30.519 --> 00:37:34.760
So academics was kind of quasi -okay, not very

00:37:34.760 --> 00:37:38.659
bright, all that stuff. But my dad, when I was

00:37:38.659 --> 00:37:40.500
about eight, said, son, I want you to start reading

00:37:40.500 --> 00:37:42.840
American history. I said, why? He said, one day

00:37:42.840 --> 00:37:45.039
you'll get there. And I don't want you to be

00:37:45.039 --> 00:37:47.219
a second -class citizen to anybody. So I learned

00:37:47.219 --> 00:37:49.420
American history while I was in India, carrying

00:37:49.420 --> 00:37:51.420
European history and Indian history as part of

00:37:51.420 --> 00:37:54.000
course curriculum. So I remember when I went

00:37:54.000 --> 00:37:57.340
through my citizenship test, an African -American

00:37:57.340 --> 00:37:59.360
lady looked at me and said, oh, you know, on

00:37:59.360 --> 00:38:01.519
your test, you can expect questions like Emancipation

00:38:01.519 --> 00:38:03.579
Proclamation. What happened? When was the Emancipation

00:38:03.579 --> 00:38:06.519
Proclamation? And I didn't think of when. I was

00:38:06.519 --> 00:38:08.139
going to give her the verbal dump of Abraham

00:38:08.139 --> 00:38:09.579
Lincoln and the whole nine years. She says, oh,

00:38:09.599 --> 00:38:11.219
no, honey, in America, it's multiple choice.

00:38:11.400 --> 00:38:15.010
And I knew I was going to make it. When I came

00:38:15.010 --> 00:38:18.050
here, I realized how little people had as respect.

00:38:18.789 --> 00:38:20.789
In India, when you go through Indian history,

00:38:20.949 --> 00:38:22.949
you're taught pride. When you go to French history,

00:38:23.090 --> 00:38:25.809
you're taught pride. America is the only country

00:38:25.809 --> 00:38:27.670
you can come from anywhere in the world and claim

00:38:27.670 --> 00:38:29.730
identity. You can go from here and be French

00:38:29.730 --> 00:38:31.690
or German or Indian. You're always going to be

00:38:31.690 --> 00:38:35.590
an expat. But I thought of the ingratitude that

00:38:35.590 --> 00:38:37.690
the folks had. And I came at the tail end of

00:38:37.690 --> 00:38:40.610
Reagan, and I was already seeing that lackadaisical

00:38:40.610 --> 00:38:43.389
attitude. It was quite different from the...

00:38:43.840 --> 00:38:47.260
the John Wayne America, you know, the quite different

00:38:47.260 --> 00:38:51.659
from, but one thing I realized very quickly that

00:38:51.659 --> 00:38:53.800
gratitude becomes the healthiest of all human

00:38:53.800 --> 00:38:55.639
emotions. Most of these people are miserable

00:38:55.639 --> 00:38:57.460
because they don't have gratitude for what they

00:38:57.460 --> 00:39:00.039
have. I agree. And on a napkin, I remember very

00:39:00.039 --> 00:39:02.380
early, I wrote, I will always have something

00:39:02.380 --> 00:39:06.360
up to look to. I will always have something to

00:39:06.360 --> 00:39:08.920
lean on. And I always want to be proud of where

00:39:08.920 --> 00:39:11.079
I stand. It's beautiful. And I started studying

00:39:11.079 --> 00:39:12.659
America. So my first book was called The American

00:39:12.659 --> 00:39:16.000
Dream from an Indian Heart. Wow. And the premise

00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:17.599
of the book was, if you can't make it in this

00:39:17.599 --> 00:39:19.659
country, don't pack. You ain't going to make

00:39:19.659 --> 00:39:22.800
it anywhere else. Wow. And that suddenly people

00:39:22.800 --> 00:39:25.039
started waking up to me and saying, how do you

00:39:25.039 --> 00:39:27.039
know so much? I said, it's not a question of

00:39:27.039 --> 00:39:28.880
knowing so much. It's a question of the depth.

00:39:29.420 --> 00:39:31.679
So when I read Dr. King's speech, when I first

00:39:31.679 --> 00:39:33.420
came to America as a young immigrant thinking,

00:39:33.579 --> 00:39:35.400
okay, that's what different people have to do.

00:39:35.789 --> 00:39:38.670
Because Dr. King talked about character. Very

00:39:38.670 --> 00:39:40.869
quickly, I realized as I speak to communities

00:39:40.869 --> 00:39:43.309
all over the country, I said, most of you hung

00:39:43.309 --> 00:39:47.010
on to the first verse of his speech and stayed

00:39:47.010 --> 00:39:49.570
there. And it liberated a group of people. But

00:39:49.570 --> 00:39:51.469
none of you have ever looked at the second where

00:39:51.469 --> 00:39:53.469
he says, I have a dream that every little black

00:39:53.469 --> 00:39:55.150
boy and every little black girl in the great

00:39:55.150 --> 00:39:57.170
state of Alabama, where the governor's lips drip

00:39:57.170 --> 00:39:59.389
with nullification and interposition. I said,

00:39:59.389 --> 00:40:01.530
do you realize that came true? And the people

00:40:01.530 --> 00:40:03.070
in those communities who look at me say, what

00:40:03.070 --> 00:40:04.820
do you mean? I said, do you realize there was

00:40:04.820 --> 00:40:07.360
a four -year period in American history where

00:40:07.360 --> 00:40:09.460
a black girl from Alabama and a white boy from

00:40:09.460 --> 00:40:11.579
Texas had their picture in every embassy around

00:40:11.579 --> 00:40:13.340
the world, George Bush and Condoleezza Rice.

00:40:13.440 --> 00:40:17.059
Wow. So I said, for me, character is the pride

00:40:17.059 --> 00:40:19.320
in the mundane. I said, when Dr. King was talking

00:40:19.320 --> 00:40:21.400
about character, I think the divinity in him

00:40:21.400 --> 00:40:24.340
said that everybody will be invited to the banquet,

00:40:24.519 --> 00:40:26.679
but only character will keep you there. Wow.

00:40:26.880 --> 00:40:28.900
And that's what I, so as I started teaching,

00:40:29.059 --> 00:40:31.679
this community started inviting me saying, Wait

00:40:31.679 --> 00:40:34.320
a minute, all we had was the rage that came with

00:40:34.320 --> 00:40:36.559
that, but you're talking about possibility in

00:40:36.559 --> 00:40:39.519
this. And suddenly Mr. Ziegler said, wait a minute,

00:40:39.599 --> 00:40:42.420
son, you're discovering things that we have glossed

00:40:42.420 --> 00:40:45.099
over. You may be the last great salesman we have

00:40:45.099 --> 00:40:48.019
for America. So he started introducing me as

00:40:48.019 --> 00:40:50.949
Twilight. He said, this is my legacy. He ain't

00:40:50.949 --> 00:40:53.510
black or white. He's my twilight. So my last

00:40:53.510 --> 00:40:56.150
book was called Twilight, How One Man's Unity

00:40:56.150 --> 00:40:58.949
Universe Changed My Universe, Acts 1726. Wow.

00:40:58.949 --> 00:41:01.550
So it's a dedication to Mr. Ziegler. Brother,

00:41:01.630 --> 00:41:03.630
that is beautiful. And yeah, so that's the...

00:41:03.980 --> 00:41:06.380
But I love it. It took somebody with a different

00:41:06.380 --> 00:41:08.820
worldview to come and see things from a different

00:41:08.820 --> 00:41:11.719
perspective, a different angle. Because growing

00:41:11.719 --> 00:41:15.599
up here, there's a sense of privilege and entitlement

00:41:15.599 --> 00:41:18.920
that's just baked in. You just expect things

00:41:18.920 --> 00:41:22.579
to work. You expect things to be the same relatively

00:41:22.579 --> 00:41:24.539
your whole life. Yeah, when people ask me what

00:41:24.539 --> 00:41:27.119
motivates you, I said hot water. Now, we had

00:41:27.119 --> 00:41:28.639
running water. If you needed it, you ran and

00:41:28.639 --> 00:41:30.800
got it. But that's not reasonably far from the

00:41:30.800 --> 00:41:34.019
truth. My mother was a child bride. Father was

00:41:34.019 --> 00:41:37.440
studying under a streetlight. But I tell these

00:41:37.440 --> 00:41:39.420
people, I have used Mr. Ziegler's philosophy

00:41:39.420 --> 00:41:41.940
on that man, my father, who studied under a streetlight.

00:41:42.360 --> 00:41:45.679
One day my dad came to me, 75. He's now retired.

00:41:45.900 --> 00:41:47.559
He's now lamenting that he's helped everybody.

00:41:47.920 --> 00:41:50.659
He said, son, is there hope for me? And I remember

00:41:50.659 --> 00:41:52.579
making a statement to my father in front of a

00:41:52.579 --> 00:41:54.880
group of 300. I said, pop, when your obligations

00:41:54.880 --> 00:41:57.380
to others finish, your obligations to your dreams

00:41:57.380 --> 00:42:00.139
remain because God created you uniquely for a

00:42:00.139 --> 00:42:02.949
purpose. And at the age of 75, we enrolled my

00:42:02.949 --> 00:42:05.070
father back in the university using his degree

00:42:05.070 --> 00:42:08.409
from 1955. At the age of 84, my father got his

00:42:08.409 --> 00:42:11.929
PhD. At the age of 90 now, he's in a retirement

00:42:11.929 --> 00:42:14.070
home. He just submitted a thesis, postdoctoral

00:42:14.070 --> 00:42:16.929
research on his own thesis. He dragged my mom

00:42:16.929 --> 00:42:19.449
back through college. And at the age of 75, my

00:42:19.449 --> 00:42:21.469
mom got her master's shortly before she passed.

00:42:21.690 --> 00:42:23.429
Both of them got their advanced degrees at the

00:42:23.429 --> 00:42:26.190
same convocation. And in their acceptance speech,

00:42:26.250 --> 00:42:29.179
they said, Our son is our hero. He made us do

00:42:29.179 --> 00:42:32.380
this. Love that. So I met a guy. We were having

00:42:32.380 --> 00:42:36.639
our tile work done in our house, and his name

00:42:36.639 --> 00:42:40.070
was Laszlo. Very different. He had a very thick

00:42:40.070 --> 00:42:44.389
accent, European, Eastern Bloc type accent. And

00:42:44.389 --> 00:42:46.369
I asked him where he's from. He said, actually,

00:42:46.590 --> 00:42:48.309
I'm Polish. I said, you have a beautiful accent,

00:42:48.429 --> 00:42:51.369
brother. I love your accent. And we were talking,

00:42:51.429 --> 00:42:53.730
and the border issue was really hot. This had

00:42:53.730 --> 00:42:56.150
been about two years ago. Border issue was really.

00:42:56.289 --> 00:42:58.530
And I asked him a question. I said, how long

00:42:58.530 --> 00:43:00.789
have you been in the States? He told me. And

00:43:00.789 --> 00:43:04.170
he owns his own company, his tile company, construction

00:43:04.170 --> 00:43:07.639
company. And I said, tell me, what? give me your

00:43:07.639 --> 00:43:09.940
opinion on what's happening at the border and

00:43:09.940 --> 00:43:14.059
he was he got animated he got fired up he said

00:43:14.059 --> 00:43:16.760
they're criminals yeah he said their first act

00:43:16.760 --> 00:43:19.219
of coming into america is to break the law he

00:43:19.219 --> 00:43:22.039
said i did it the right way i jumped through

00:43:22.039 --> 00:43:25.139
all the hoops i learned the history he said now

00:43:25.139 --> 00:43:27.940
i value what i have he said that's the difference

00:43:27.940 --> 00:43:31.139
and poland is the only country in western europe

00:43:31.139 --> 00:43:32.780
that has no problems because they don't allow

00:43:32.780 --> 00:43:35.199
anybody in in fact the polish guy The prime minister

00:43:35.199 --> 00:43:36.860
just said, we're not going to let anybody in

00:43:36.860 --> 00:43:39.139
who wants to change our culture. Hungary did

00:43:39.139 --> 00:43:40.780
the same thing. The two countries that are being

00:43:40.780 --> 00:43:43.760
vilified. I mean, I teach world history in a

00:43:43.760 --> 00:43:45.860
different way. I've been to Poland. I visited

00:43:45.860 --> 00:43:48.960
Auschwitz. I asked the Polish people. They said,

00:43:48.960 --> 00:43:51.579
never again. We're never again. The fortification

00:43:51.579 --> 00:43:54.280
of Warsaw is designed so a person like Hitler

00:43:54.280 --> 00:43:56.980
could not walk over and designate a city. They'll

00:43:56.980 --> 00:44:01.579
never forget. You have to learn. So we've got

00:44:01.579 --> 00:44:04.860
a break. I love the preamble you do where you

00:44:04.860 --> 00:44:07.380
do the State of the Union before you give a message.

00:44:07.719 --> 00:44:11.780
And it's very important. For the last four years

00:44:11.780 --> 00:44:16.719
during the debacle, I used to tell people, I

00:44:16.719 --> 00:44:18.760
said, stop saying God bless America. And they

00:44:18.760 --> 00:44:20.739
would look at me. I said, get on your knees and

00:44:20.739 --> 00:44:22.900
say, God save America. He already blessed it

00:44:22.900 --> 00:44:25.889
and you screwed it up. Come on, brother. Make

00:44:25.889 --> 00:44:30.190
America godly again. I've not been able to shake

00:44:30.190 --> 00:44:32.610
this. First of all, I've always believed that

00:44:32.610 --> 00:44:36.030
America is not a good idea that God blessed.

00:44:36.269 --> 00:44:38.610
America is a God idea that we get the privilege

00:44:38.610 --> 00:44:41.309
of stewarding. We have to steward what we have.

00:44:41.469 --> 00:44:44.449
So there's the responsibility piece for me. The

00:44:44.449 --> 00:44:46.909
second part is that America doesn't have a political

00:44:46.909 --> 00:44:49.610
problem. We have a spiritual problem. And that

00:44:49.610 --> 00:44:52.289
to me is... The only thing that can change the

00:44:52.289 --> 00:44:54.570
human heart is the gospel of Jesus Christ. Nothing

00:44:54.570 --> 00:44:57.829
else. Nobody is clever enough, smart enough.

00:44:57.929 --> 00:45:00.469
If anybody can talk you into something, somebody

00:45:00.469 --> 00:45:02.929
else can talk you out of it. So we know it's

00:45:02.929 --> 00:45:05.789
got to be a true transformation. And that is

00:45:05.789 --> 00:45:08.050
the hope for America. I think we have a window.

00:45:08.619 --> 00:45:10.659
We've been given a window. It seems that we've

00:45:10.659 --> 00:45:14.079
been given sort of a green light. It seems like.

00:45:14.099 --> 00:45:17.380
It feels like we've got a hall pass to actually

00:45:17.380 --> 00:45:20.659
go do something and move some things. I just

00:45:20.659 --> 00:45:23.150
saw where on Sunday I announced that. Twelve

00:45:23.150 --> 00:45:26.349
states in America are putting forth bills to

00:45:26.349 --> 00:45:30.010
get the Ten Commandments back in classrooms.

00:45:30.349 --> 00:45:33.230
Well, as of today, it's 15 states. So we're seeing

00:45:33.230 --> 00:45:35.309
a movement. There's a movement happening right

00:45:35.309 --> 00:45:38.909
now. And those are good things. They speak to

00:45:38.909 --> 00:45:42.449
a broader issue, and that is that there are people

00:45:42.449 --> 00:45:45.429
saying we've got to get back to where we started.

00:45:46.170 --> 00:45:48.130
We've got to go back to be in the future, back

00:45:48.130 --> 00:45:50.710
to the future kind of thing. We've got to guarantee

00:45:50.710 --> 00:45:53.590
our future. We've got to go back to where this

00:45:53.590 --> 00:45:55.849
started. That's why I have such a love affair

00:45:55.849 --> 00:45:59.250
with the monument to the forefathers in Plymouth.

00:45:59.349 --> 00:46:01.750
Have you ever been there? I haven't, but, I mean,

00:46:01.750 --> 00:46:04.230
of course, we carry one at the PA. I've got them

00:46:04.230 --> 00:46:06.389
everywhere. Here's the other one that you would

00:46:06.389 --> 00:46:08.750
really like. It's a lesser -known thing, but

00:46:08.750 --> 00:46:12.969
opposite the UN is a park, and it's called the

00:46:12.969 --> 00:46:15.559
Isaiah Wall. So later on, Google it. There's

00:46:15.559 --> 00:46:18.440
a scripture about the plowshares being dismantled

00:46:18.440 --> 00:46:20.219
and all of that other stuff. Right, yes. But

00:46:20.219 --> 00:46:23.820
across the UN, there is actually a biblical scripture

00:46:23.820 --> 00:46:25.880
on what is called the Isaiah Wall, and nobody

00:46:25.880 --> 00:46:30.900
talks about it. Isn't that wild? In fact, in

00:46:30.900 --> 00:46:33.059
Scotland, when religion was going away, people

00:46:33.059 --> 00:46:35.559
said maybe because we have eradicated completely

00:46:35.559 --> 00:46:38.280
from the civic and we've tried to separate church

00:46:38.280 --> 00:46:42.340
and state. We maybe, if we build our civic centers

00:46:42.340 --> 00:46:44.659
next to churches, some of the morality will rub

00:46:44.659 --> 00:46:46.780
off. They were still clinging to it in some way.

00:46:46.800 --> 00:46:48.659
In some way, there was a reaching. You know,

00:46:48.659 --> 00:46:51.219
when I study world, because I teach apologetics

00:46:51.219 --> 00:46:53.139
and I teach world history through the lens of

00:46:53.139 --> 00:46:56.559
that narrative. So one of the books that I encourage

00:46:56.559 --> 00:46:59.360
everybody who's watching this and who, you know,

00:46:59.360 --> 00:47:02.320
who was part of your extended family, everybody

00:47:02.320 --> 00:47:05.280
needs to read the New England Primer. It's a

00:47:05.280 --> 00:47:07.840
book that now David Barton's Wall Builders publishes.

00:47:08.250 --> 00:47:10.389
And it's now in the refined English, so the words

00:47:10.389 --> 00:47:12.690
are not transposed. But the New England Primer,

00:47:12.730 --> 00:47:14.730
I think Benjamin Harrison's first published in

00:47:14.730 --> 00:47:18.550
1677. Wow. And it had A in a Bible verse, B in

00:47:18.550 --> 00:47:20.869
a Bible verse. And first grade people in that

00:47:20.869 --> 00:47:23.449
one room schoolhouse were learning words like

00:47:23.449 --> 00:47:25.730
abomination and, you know, polysyllabic words.

00:47:25.949 --> 00:47:28.090
And I always tell people, what did the first

00:47:28.090 --> 00:47:31.210
50 years of this country teach in one book in

00:47:31.210 --> 00:47:34.079
the first grade? that produce the likes of Washington,

00:47:34.219 --> 00:47:36.639
Madison, and Monroe, and Adams. And you tell

00:47:36.639 --> 00:47:38.639
me if someone of that ilk in the last 50 years,

00:47:38.699 --> 00:47:40.860
it's because we have polluted ourselves with

00:47:40.860 --> 00:47:42.820
garbage. Absolutely. And it's a small little

00:47:42.820 --> 00:47:45.440
book, and I keep a box of it in my house in Dallas.

00:47:45.500 --> 00:47:48.179
And anybody who's not conservative or not Christian,

00:47:48.320 --> 00:47:50.440
when they come to my house, I said, I don't have

00:47:50.440 --> 00:47:51.840
much to give you, but I'll give you the gift.

00:47:52.039 --> 00:47:54.039
Beautiful, beautiful. It's called the New England

00:47:54.039 --> 00:47:56.719
Primer. And it's, I think, a must read because

00:47:56.719 --> 00:48:00.260
we'll now understand the likes. of why Daniel

00:48:00.260 --> 00:48:02.980
Webster at the age of 15 was able to go to Exeter

00:48:02.980 --> 00:48:06.840
Academy. Brilliant. So, in fact, when the interns

00:48:06.840 --> 00:48:09.280
I teach, I teach them the same thing. Love that.

00:48:09.539 --> 00:48:12.699
I said, I'm your tutor, I'm your dean, but the

00:48:12.699 --> 00:48:14.519
journey I've taken to get here from the rural

00:48:14.519 --> 00:48:17.079
part of southern India is nothing less than miraculous.

00:48:17.079 --> 00:48:20.199
There you go. I came to America with $9, Pastor,

00:48:20.280 --> 00:48:24.059
in my pocket and a dream. And I remember the

00:48:24.059 --> 00:48:27.559
first day I landed in UJFK Airport. Wow. Immigration.

00:48:27.659 --> 00:48:31.230
There were only two lines. And two signs, 1986.

00:48:31.889 --> 00:48:35.090
One said citizens, the other said others. My

00:48:35.090 --> 00:48:36.929
wife was a citizen. Even though she became a

00:48:36.929 --> 00:48:39.190
citizen in India, she went through others. She

00:48:39.190 --> 00:48:41.510
said, honey, that's your line. She said, I'll

00:48:41.510 --> 00:48:43.570
be waiting for you at baggage claim. Well, two

00:48:43.570 --> 00:48:45.630
hours later, she came knocking because I was

00:48:45.630 --> 00:48:48.030
still being, this was before the internet thing.

00:48:48.630 --> 00:48:51.369
They were processing me, fingerprints. I came

00:48:51.369 --> 00:48:53.030
with a medical clearance. I came with a police

00:48:53.030 --> 00:48:54.989
clearance. I came with everything. But I'll never

00:48:54.989 --> 00:48:56.769
forget what that immigration officer said to

00:48:56.769 --> 00:48:59.190
Anila. I said, ma 'am, we're doing it the right

00:48:59.190 --> 00:49:03.730
way. Give me 15 more minutes, and I'll finish

00:49:03.730 --> 00:49:05.869
processing your husband, and he'll never have

00:49:05.869 --> 00:49:07.829
to look over his shoulder again. Ah, beautiful.

00:49:08.130 --> 00:49:11.550
Wow. Ten years later, in New York, I'm sitting

00:49:11.550 --> 00:49:14.769
in Mayor Rudy Giuliani's seats watching a Yankee

00:49:14.769 --> 00:49:18.449
game, The American Dreamer, come true. Brother.

00:49:19.210 --> 00:49:21.809
We are truly blessed here. We are blessed. What

00:49:21.809 --> 00:49:23.489
I love about you, and I love what I'm hearing,

00:49:23.630 --> 00:49:26.590
and I'm getting it in spades, is you live a grateful

00:49:26.590 --> 00:49:30.349
life. That's my and my wife's moniker. We live

00:49:30.349 --> 00:49:34.570
a grateful life. No matter what happens, in our

00:49:34.570 --> 00:49:37.110
own spiritual and life journey, we've lost things.

00:49:37.510 --> 00:49:40.289
We've lost everything a couple of times. And

00:49:40.289 --> 00:49:42.570
you know what? We survived just fine. You know

00:49:42.570 --> 00:49:44.289
what? We found out we didn't need all that stuff.

00:49:44.630 --> 00:49:47.679
And we realized... After you've lost something

00:49:47.679 --> 00:49:50.199
and God has restored, you realize you have nothing

00:49:50.199 --> 00:49:52.920
to fear ever again. And you can just live grateful.

00:49:53.019 --> 00:49:55.139
Every day I get up, I say I hit the lottery this

00:49:55.139 --> 00:49:57.900
morning. I woke up. I get to do this. I got another

00:49:57.900 --> 00:50:01.420
day to do this, to live this life. And so I hear

00:50:01.420 --> 00:50:03.699
that spirit off of you. It's why I'm drawn to

00:50:03.699 --> 00:50:05.820
you. It's why I'm drawn to Rick. I'm drawn to

00:50:05.820 --> 00:50:06.639
people who have that spirit on them. Yeah, that

00:50:06.639 --> 00:50:10.679
old adage was, you know, if you're ever having

00:50:10.679 --> 00:50:13.340
a bad day, think of the garbage collector with

00:50:13.340 --> 00:50:16.230
a weak stomach. Or if you're ever having a bad

00:50:16.230 --> 00:50:20.130
day, try missing one. Either one will wake you

00:50:20.130 --> 00:50:22.269
up pretty quick to the gratitude of life. I love

00:50:22.269 --> 00:50:25.309
it, brother. Last thing before we go, I just

00:50:25.309 --> 00:50:28.550
want to hear, what would you say to someone who's

00:50:28.550 --> 00:50:32.429
watching this today? I mean, what is it that's...

00:50:32.909 --> 00:50:35.710
that always percolates out of you when you don't

00:50:35.710 --> 00:50:38.150
even mean to. It's just there, your core value,

00:50:38.269 --> 00:50:40.469
your core heart. Yeah, and it's an amalgamation

00:50:40.469 --> 00:50:43.090
of different things, but it's one of the quotes

00:50:43.090 --> 00:50:45.610
that's attributed to me that if you went online,

00:50:45.769 --> 00:50:48.289
typed in my name in whichever way, again, I'm

00:50:48.289 --> 00:50:51.530
not selling anything, but years ago I wrote this

00:50:51.530 --> 00:50:56.150
and I still live by it. Plan with attitude. That

00:50:56.150 --> 00:51:00.489
is will. Prepare with aptitude. That is skill.

00:51:01.630 --> 00:51:04.030
Participate with servitude. That is humility.

00:51:05.010 --> 00:51:08.550
Receive with gratitude. That is honor. And that

00:51:08.550 --> 00:51:10.750
will separate you from the multitudes. Plan with

00:51:10.750 --> 00:51:12.989
attitude. Prepare with aptitude. Participate

00:51:12.989 --> 00:51:15.150
with servitude. Receive with gratitude. And that

00:51:15.150 --> 00:51:16.809
will separate you from the multitudes. I love

00:51:16.809 --> 00:51:19.349
that. If you want to go from a 97 % comfort zone

00:51:19.349 --> 00:51:22.750
thinker to a 3 % effective zone thinker, just

00:51:22.750 --> 00:51:24.829
remember this. Yesterday ended with last night.

00:51:24.929 --> 00:51:26.730
Today is the first day of the rest of your life.

00:51:26.789 --> 00:51:29.820
Happy birthday to you. Brother, so let's make

00:51:29.820 --> 00:51:32.400
the rest of our life the best of our life. Amen.

00:51:32.639 --> 00:51:34.920
We do it. And I stole something from your sermon

00:51:34.920 --> 00:51:36.900
yesterday, which is going to be my devotion title

00:51:36.900 --> 00:51:39.139
next week. Now that I'm here, I can admit it.

00:51:40.019 --> 00:51:43.039
But you use the words in a different context,

00:51:43.079 --> 00:51:44.719
but they asked me what my devotion is going to

00:51:44.719 --> 00:51:46.599
be next Monday. I'm doing someone's Zoom devotion.

00:51:47.079 --> 00:51:50.820
I said, turning your, moving from how to well.

00:51:51.139 --> 00:51:54.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was a big revelation for

00:51:54.760 --> 00:51:56.840
me because I was always that kid who wanted to

00:51:56.840 --> 00:51:59.000
know. Don't tell me the time. I want to know

00:51:59.000 --> 00:52:01.360
how that watch works. I mean, I was always backwards

00:52:01.360 --> 00:52:04.639
looking. I'm fascinated by moving parts and systems

00:52:04.639 --> 00:52:08.719
and systemic things. And so the Lord had to grow

00:52:08.719 --> 00:52:10.880
me down to grow me up. He had to grow me like

00:52:10.880 --> 00:52:12.920
a child and begin to just be playful and go,

00:52:13.059 --> 00:52:16.380
wow. Yeah, and the global perspective changes.

00:52:16.559 --> 00:52:18.519
You know, I've traveled to many countries. I've

00:52:18.519 --> 00:52:21.480
preached in countries where. The question is

00:52:21.480 --> 00:52:24.340
not a serious question on our exegesis. This

00:52:24.340 --> 00:52:26.860
question is not on denominationalism or prosperity.

00:52:27.539 --> 00:52:29.800
When a pastor holds your hand and says, Pastor,

00:52:29.900 --> 00:52:31.880
what would you tell a congregation when your

00:52:31.880 --> 00:52:34.739
church was burnt last week and you're meeting

00:52:34.739 --> 00:52:37.820
under a tree? How do I give them hope? And the

00:52:37.820 --> 00:52:41.599
answer is, you know, you have to dig deep for

00:52:41.599 --> 00:52:43.699
that because you have to hold their hands. And

00:52:43.699 --> 00:52:46.800
we are so quick to give answers because that

00:52:46.800 --> 00:52:48.820
is our way of thinking. We want to fix stuff.

00:52:50.440 --> 00:52:52.760
That's the one thing I learned in grief is that

00:52:52.760 --> 00:52:56.519
I tell even my students here, I say, don't look

00:52:56.519 --> 00:53:00.559
at someone across the table trying to make a

00:53:00.559 --> 00:53:04.679
solution possible. Stand next to them side by

00:53:04.679 --> 00:53:08.739
side. Otherwise, John 3 .16 is a lie. Jesus Christ,

00:53:08.900 --> 00:53:11.019
our Lord and Savior, died for those who don't

00:53:11.019 --> 00:53:14.500
know him. So the greatest and the weakest, stand

00:53:14.500 --> 00:53:16.659
next to them and let the Jesus in you find the

00:53:16.659 --> 00:53:21.599
Jesus in them. Just leak out what you're full

00:53:21.599 --> 00:53:23.960
of and let him lead the way. There's an old saying

00:53:23.960 --> 00:53:25.860
about that. Mr. Ziegler used to use this analogy

00:53:25.860 --> 00:53:28.400
about how Christians used to live, and it'll

00:53:28.400 --> 00:53:30.639
be a tongue -in -cheek funny one. But he said

00:53:30.639 --> 00:53:32.519
the mama skunk and the baby skunk were walking

00:53:32.519 --> 00:53:34.460
next to the paper mill, and if any of you have

00:53:34.460 --> 00:53:36.219
lived there, you know that pungent odor that

00:53:36.219 --> 00:53:38.059
comes from there that stinks up the environment.

00:53:38.559 --> 00:53:40.639
And the baby skunk tells the mama skunk, Mama,

00:53:40.739 --> 00:53:43.170
what's that stink? And the mama skunk says, I

00:53:43.170 --> 00:53:44.869
don't know what it is, but we got to go get some.

00:53:45.130 --> 00:53:48.349
I said, ooze the sweet aroma of Jesus. So people

00:53:48.349 --> 00:53:51.449
say, we got to get some. I do know what a paper

00:53:51.449 --> 00:53:53.969
mill smells like, by the way. I figured you would

00:53:53.969 --> 00:53:56.590
because of that. I actually do. When you said

00:53:56.590 --> 00:53:58.269
that, I went, oh, I know exactly what he's talking

00:53:58.269 --> 00:54:01.150
about. Anyhow, so that, yeah, we just, I tell

00:54:01.150 --> 00:54:03.670
people, you know, one day at a time, one breath

00:54:03.670 --> 00:54:06.409
at a time. My friend Victor Abraham reminds me,

00:54:06.449 --> 00:54:08.289
he says, laughter is the best medicine, but if

00:54:08.289 --> 00:54:10.070
you find yourself laughing for no reason, you

00:54:10.070 --> 00:54:14.690
need medicine. Come on, brother. Come on. So

00:54:14.690 --> 00:54:18.090
I just, I try to chuckle my way. I've been in

00:54:18.090 --> 00:54:20.369
very hostile situations sharing the gospel, Middle

00:54:20.369 --> 00:54:23.289
Eastern country. So I've always used holy humor

00:54:23.289 --> 00:54:27.730
to cope. Come on, brother. You have to. Yeah.

00:54:28.070 --> 00:54:32.119
So, but you know, someday as we... I love the

00:54:32.119 --> 00:54:33.940
friendship. I love the fact that we get to worship

00:54:33.940 --> 00:54:37.360
with you and make this our home church as we

00:54:37.360 --> 00:54:40.579
start moving to a more permanent basis. And so

00:54:40.579 --> 00:54:43.440
thank you for what you do. You lift our hearts

00:54:43.440 --> 00:54:46.780
on Sunday. And you guys just... I've been very

00:54:46.780 --> 00:54:49.820
welcoming of us, and that's truly, you know.

00:54:49.900 --> 00:54:51.980
Wherever Manila and I have gone, we've been the

00:54:51.980 --> 00:54:55.199
only ones that look like us. Your wife is a delight,

00:54:55.280 --> 00:54:57.199
brother. You out -punted your coverage. Yeah,

00:54:57.239 --> 00:54:59.380
that's a— I'm serious. You married her. She's

00:54:59.380 --> 00:55:01.000
sharp. As the old saying goes, I cannot respect

00:55:01.000 --> 00:55:03.219
a man who does not over -marry. That's right.

00:55:03.780 --> 00:55:06.679
Amen, brother. Most people aim low and hit. I

00:55:06.679 --> 00:55:08.480
aimed high and missed and got a whole bunch of

00:55:08.480 --> 00:55:11.159
stuff I didn't agree on. Brother, I know because

00:55:11.159 --> 00:55:13.420
I did the same thing. I tell people, as Adrian

00:55:13.420 --> 00:55:15.440
Rogers would say, he says, if she ever leaves

00:55:15.440 --> 00:55:21.449
me, I'm going with her. Brother, you're a delight.

00:55:21.530 --> 00:55:23.829
And thank you for being with us today. My joy.

00:55:24.010 --> 00:55:26.690
This will not be the last time. I hope. I'd love

00:55:26.690 --> 00:55:28.969
to have you back. I love the style. The conversational

00:55:28.969 --> 00:55:31.329
style just allows. And I think the people watching

00:55:31.329 --> 00:55:34.750
will be enriched because somebody out there needs

00:55:34.750 --> 00:55:40.239
that. It's okay. It is. The good guys and good

00:55:40.239 --> 00:55:43.400
gals really do win. I call it Igbok. It's going

00:55:43.400 --> 00:55:47.079
to be okay. I saw that on a coffee mug in Franklin,

00:55:47.199 --> 00:55:49.659
Tennessee. I stole that. I'm not buying that

00:55:49.659 --> 00:55:51.860
coffee mug, but I'm taking that saying. Igbok,

00:55:51.940 --> 00:55:53.639
it's going to be okay. And it is going to be

00:55:53.639 --> 00:55:55.860
okay. You know, one of the things Lucado said,

00:55:56.059 --> 00:55:58.719
which was very – he says, you know, we all –

00:55:58.719 --> 00:56:00.920
I think it was in six hours one Friday, and I'm

00:56:00.920 --> 00:56:05.260
paraphrasing. But we all think time is on our

00:56:05.260 --> 00:56:08.789
side. When people say, why should I act now?

00:56:09.230 --> 00:56:11.269
I love how Lucado put it. He said, did Mary know

00:56:11.269 --> 00:56:13.510
that 24 hours later she would be cradling the

00:56:13.510 --> 00:56:16.429
body of her son? Did John know that 24 hours

00:56:16.429 --> 00:56:18.610
later he'd be anointing the body of his slain

00:56:18.610 --> 00:56:21.409
hero? But most importantly, did Pilate know that

00:56:21.409 --> 00:56:24.050
24 hours later he would be forever credited with

00:56:24.050 --> 00:56:26.170
being the architect of the Messiah's death? When

00:56:26.170 --> 00:56:28.449
I put those three in context, I realized one

00:56:28.449 --> 00:56:30.510
was a mother who gave birth to him. One was the

00:56:30.510 --> 00:56:34.090
one who is... vilified for having crucified him.

00:56:34.170 --> 00:56:36.469
And the other was the one who devoted himself

00:56:36.469 --> 00:56:40.050
and then emulated him in the Gospels. And all

00:56:40.050 --> 00:56:43.630
three of them did not know what was going to

00:56:43.630 --> 00:56:46.789
happen 24 hours later. And none of us do, but

00:56:46.789 --> 00:56:50.710
we have to. One of the poems, if you get a chance,

00:56:50.730 --> 00:56:55.010
read a poem called La Pieta. La Pieta, P -I -E

00:56:55.010 --> 00:56:59.230
-T -A. It was written by Admiral Jeremiah Denton,

00:56:59.289 --> 00:57:02.710
who was the highest ranking officer in Vietnam,

00:57:02.929 --> 00:57:05.409
captive in Vietnam. Of course, known for the

00:57:05.409 --> 00:57:09.550
fact that he blinked through Morse code. They

00:57:09.550 --> 00:57:11.269
held him for propaganda, but he blinked through

00:57:11.269 --> 00:57:13.110
Morse code. And he became a senator from Alabama.

00:57:13.550 --> 00:57:15.690
But if you get a chance to read a really good

00:57:15.690 --> 00:57:17.929
book, it's a book called When Hell Was in Session.

00:57:19.230 --> 00:57:22.170
And this poem, La Pieta, is in there. And I won't

00:57:22.170 --> 00:57:24.789
break it, but I've memorized it for that reason.

00:57:25.590 --> 00:57:32.789
because it ends with when all is lost, all is

00:57:32.789 --> 00:57:37.670
actually won. Wow. Wow. That's the crucifixion.

00:57:37.670 --> 00:57:38.909
That's it, brother. When all was lost, all was

00:57:38.909 --> 00:57:42.289
won. All was won. And heaven and hell got put

00:57:42.289 --> 00:57:46.030
on notice. Thank you, brother. My joy. I so appreciate

00:57:46.030 --> 00:57:50.320
it. My joy. We'll land a plane with this. First

00:57:50.320 --> 00:57:52.500
of all, for all of our listeners and our watchers,

00:57:52.539 --> 00:57:54.599
you're going to hear this audio or you'll see

00:57:54.599 --> 00:57:57.099
it on video. And we want to say thank you. Thank

00:57:57.099 --> 00:57:59.500
you for being here with us today and joining

00:57:59.500 --> 00:58:02.360
us in this conversation about life, about God,

00:58:02.420 --> 00:58:05.440
the world and other things. And so appreciate,

00:58:05.679 --> 00:58:07.559
so appreciate, appreciate being with us today.

00:58:07.780 --> 00:58:10.440
Listen, go to our website, livingupinadownworld

00:58:10.440 --> 00:58:14.760
.com and subscribe and like and join us. We just

00:58:14.760 --> 00:58:16.840
want to say that we love you and our heart for

00:58:16.840 --> 00:58:20.059
you is to live up in a down world. amazing day

00:58:20.059 --> 00:58:20.800
on purpose.